Mannymac
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Convert Sample Rate of existing project
Hi Sonar users,
I'm currently working on a mix for a client that he wants to receive as a 96khz 24 bit file.
However I'm finding myself working with rather high latencies and running out of CPU.
Is it possible for me to save the session with all effects automation etc in another sample rate?
The idea is to delete all the audio tracks in the session so it is empty. I would then use the Voxengo batch commander to convert my audio tracks from 96khz to 44 khz. The goal is to reimport them then into the session that is now on 44 khz. I would then to all my processing, then delete the 44khz audio tracks again. Then I would convert the session file again from 44 khz to 96khz if possible and reimport the 06khz audio tracks for the final bounce at 96 khz.
The goal is as you can see to just work on the session in a less CPU taxing sample rate and then use the higher sample rate for the finale bounce.
Help much appreciated :)
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KingsMix
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Re: Convert Sample Rate of existing project
2016/11/19 08:30:10
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So what kind of type of final file does he want to receive?
I would respectfully ask the client the reason for his request. He may be asking for something that he doesn't necessarily need and or is misinformed about.
Not saying that he doesn't know what he needs, just saying it's good to inquire on what he is shooting for.
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slartabartfast
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Re: Convert Sample Rate of existing project
2016/11/19 14:52:49
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Here's the thing. If he actually needs the resolution he wants, then you are not going to be able to give that to him by reducing your mix to 44.1K and then resampling at 96K at some subsequent point. All that will happen is that the lower resolution data will be zero padded at the least significant end without adding any new data. Any data he gave you at 96K will be lost below that point if you re-sample to the lower rate, so he will not even get what he gave you back again after the re-sampling. If he is willing to live with the lower resolution, then keeping it all at 44.1 until he is done with whatever he intends to do with it will have the same result. Internally SONAR is going to be doing calculations at a higher resolution anyway, so concerns about rounding errors etc. are not significant.
btw There are theoretical reasons why a conversion from 48K (instead of 44.1) to 96 K might be a better choice without adding much load to your processing.
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bvideo
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Re: Convert Sample Rate of existing project
2016/11/19 21:46:11
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Mannymac, I think you are trying to figure out how to save CPU time and reduce latency by substituting 44.1K versions of your files, then when you're done, put the high res files back in, right?
I don't think that can be done within a single project, and duping all your work back and forth between projects will be impractical.
It might be better to just figure out how to reduce CPU by freezing* parts of your project while you work on other parts.
*In case you haven't come across this: The freeze feature allows you to temporarily bounce your track, including soft synths and effects, to reduce the amount of CPU power needed.
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Kev999
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Re: Convert Sample Rate of existing project
2016/11/19 21:54:58
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Mannymac
...working on a mix for a client that he wants to receive as a 96khz 24 bit file...
...convert my audio tracks from 96khz to 44 khz...the session that is now on 44 khz. I would then to all my processing...Then I would convert the session file again from 44 khz to 96khz...
Your client would most likely feel ripped off if he knew you did that.
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tenfoot
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Re: Convert Sample Rate of existing project
2016/11/19 23:03:53
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bvideo
Mannymac, I think you are trying to figure out how to save CPU time and reduce latency by substituting 44.1K versions of your files, then when you're done, put the high res files back in, right?
There was a script for Vegas Video called gearshift that did exactly this in the video world. If you have a client who is for whatever reason insisting on an extraordinarily high bitrate/sample rate, it actually isn't a bad idea. I have done it in the past with16bit/24 bit versions of projects. Manymac - where your description gets a little unclear is where you say that after converting to a lower bit rate and editing you would then re-convert to the higher rate. I believe you mean you would substitute the original higher sample rate audio files for the lower bitrate temporary versions right? Mannymac
The idea is to delete all the audio tracks in the session so it is empty. I
Help much appreciated :)
You wouldnt need to delete all of the audio clips - in fact it would be a disadvantage. If you just convert the audio outside of Sonar using voxengo, and then switch out the original audio files in the project audio folder. When you re-open the project, Sonar may say something like the source audio has changed and ask if you want to use it anyway. That way your automation, clip location etc does not change.
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tenfoot
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Re: Convert Sample Rate of existing project
2016/11/19 23:06:30
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Kev999
Mannymac
...working on a mix for a client that he wants to receive as a 96khz 24 bit file...
...convert my audio tracks from 96khz to 44 khz...the session that is now on 44 khz. I would then to all my processing...Then I would convert the session file again from 44 khz to 96khz...
Your client would most likely feel ripped off if he knew you did that.
Why? The project is returned to the higher bit rate by re-substituting the original Hi Def source files, not resampled from the lower to higher bitrate.
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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Kev999
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Re: Convert Sample Rate of existing project
2016/11/19 23:51:39
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tenfoot
Kev999
Mannymac
...working on a mix for a client that he wants to receive as a 96khz 24 bit file...
...convert my audio tracks from 96khz to 44 khz...the session that is now on 44 khz. I would then to all my processing...Then I would convert the session file again from 44 khz to 96khz...
Your client would most likely feel ripped off if he knew you did that.
Why? The project is returned to the higher bit rate by re-substituting the original Hi Def source files, not resampled from the lower to higher bitrate.
I'm presuming that the client wants the OP's contributions to the project to be done at 96kHz too. Unless I've misunderstood.
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tenfoot
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Re: Convert Sample Rate of existing project
2016/11/20 12:54:43
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Kev999
tenfoot
Kev999
Mannymac
...working on a mix for a client that he wants to receive as a 96khz 24 bit file...
...convert my audio tracks from 96khz to 44 khz...the session that is now on 44 khz. I would then to all my processing...Then I would convert the session file again from 44 khz to 96khz...
Your client would most likely feel ripped off if he knew you did that.
Why? The project is returned to the higher bit rate by re-substituting the original Hi Def source files, not resampled from the lower to higher bitrate.
I'm presuming that the client wants the OP's contributions to the project to be done at 96kHz too. Unless I've misunderstood.
I am not sure what you mean. The lower bitrate files are only substituted to speed up the editing process. Before final mixdown the original hi def files are restored, so the final product is entirely 96khz, including any fx, edits etc. Nothing is lost or down-sampled.
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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Sheanes
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Re: Convert Sample Rate of existing project
2016/11/20 13:03:59
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Hi, iic high sample rates reduce latency, not increase it.
indeed I would wipe all audio, then under preferences change your sample rate to 96.
(I think you will have to save the empty project and close it, then reopen it and in the control bar you should see it's now 96).
then with Voxengo create the 96 audio tracks and you're good, i'd say.
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Kev999
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Re: Convert Sample Rate of existing project
2016/11/20 13:56:52
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tenfoot
Kev999
tenfoot
Kev999
Mannymac
...working on a mix for a client that he wants to receive as a 96khz 24 bit file...
...convert my audio tracks from 96khz to 44 khz...the session that is now on 44 khz. I would then to all my processing...Then I would convert the session file again from 44 khz to 96khz...
Your client would most likely feel ripped off if he knew you did that.
Why? The project is returned to the higher bit rate by re-substituting the original Hi Def source files, not resampled from the lower to higher bitrate.
I'm presuming that the client wants the OP's contributions to the project to be done at 96kHz too. Unless I've misunderstood.
I am not sure what you mean. The lower bitrate files are only substituted to speed up the editing process. Before final mixdown the original hi def files are restored, so the final product is entirely 96khz, including any fx, edits etc. Nothing is lost or down-sampled.
Maybe you're right, I don't know. It depends on what sort of "editing" he will be carrying out within the project.
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slartabartfast
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Re: Convert Sample Rate of existing project
2016/11/20 19:22:33
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☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2016/11/21 05:09:53
Sheanes
Hi, iic high sample rates reduce latency, not increase it.
The reduction in latency at high sample sizes is, in practice, an illusion that results in defining the audio buffers as a number of bytes/samples. True a fixed size (number of bytes) buffer will fill (and subsequently empty) in less time at a higher sample rate and thus your latency of a given sample on moving through that buffer will decrease if more samples fill more bytes in a given time. But everywhere else in the system you are going to have more data to process because more sample means more data. So if you need a buffer because your software cannot process the amount of data it is sending/receiving, then you will need a larger buffer with larger sample rates to accommodate the increased delay required to process the extra data.
post edited by slartabartfast - 2016/11/20 19:46:17
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Sheanes
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Re: Convert Sample Rate of existing project
2016/11/20 20:13:19
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I have a plugin that advises a much lower processing latency at high sample rates.
A high sample rate indeed creates bigger files, but if they therefore will have also have high latency I'm not sure.
Maybe a computer will just need more time and power to create a high sample rate file and indeed a huge project with many tracks / effects etc and a not superstrong computer is likely gonna crash.
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