Helpful ReplyConverting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA

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bobguitkillerleft
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2014/04/22 06:16:06 (permalink)

Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA

Hi All,
I don't ask a lot of questions because i often find it's some quirk of this thrashed 2011 XPS Laptop,but I'm following all the instructions in the Manual,and after simply dragging a guitar clip into a Soft synth MIDI track[instrument track split]as shown in the second half of this Jimmy Landry X3 vid:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErxCH5naiw0,and things seemed to trigger ARA until I realized[I don't think Jimmy mentioned Melodyne was involved at all?]after reading the manual that yes I indeed needed to use Melodyne[and Authorise it!].
 
In jimmys description he suggests v
using shift +Control[not mentioned in the manual seemingly??]and I'm sure I'm doing it correctly,selecting clip,selecting region FX,and as I don't want to change anything about the performance,I'm not doing anything in Melodyne,to change it.
 
Then after Melodyne activates I'm just dragging the "Melodyne Record" to the soft synth MIDI track,but all I end up with is a "monotone"single note nothing that is only representative of the clean guitar track by the rhythm spaces,just a single bland note?
 
What am I,or this cheeky "Pre Disturbed" laptop doing wrong?
 
Thank You in advance,as this seems an excellent way for a guitar player to finally have accces to my own nuances of playing,but to the vast array of instruments in Sonar.
Bob

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#1
scook
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/22 09:24:20 (permalink)
An audio clip may be converted to MIDI by dragging it to a MIDI track. SHIFT+drag will preserve the clip location  in the timeline. It may be necessary to check/set the default algorithm in Melodyne beforehand to get the best result. Keep in mind, Melodyne Essential bundled with SONAR is monophonic. Depending on the guitar track Essential may not work well. To convert polyphonic audio to MIDI requires Melodyne Editor.
 
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rebel007
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/22 09:52:17 (permalink)
I think scook has it, are you trying to convert a one note lead track or chords? If chords, then the upgrade to Melodyne editor is required.
In the tutorials it mentions that trying to convert a guitar lead to midi can be difficult if there are bends and hammer etc. Melodyne can find it difficult to understand and convert these.
Control-shift is just a Sonar edit that copies, not moves, your clip and keeps it from moving along the timeline.

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stevec
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/23 13:57:21 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby wmb 2014/04/24 02:36:20
^^^^^^^^^
 
Shift+Drag just means Move vertically but lock horizontally, and Ctrl+Shift+Drag means Copy vertically but lock horizontally.  
 
But I'm not sure the Ctrl key is needed in this case - doesn't dragging an FX Region audio clip to a MIDI track of any kind automatically make a copy instead?
 

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bobguitkillerleft
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/23 21:11:45 (permalink)
Thanks for the replies guys,I finally worked it out,I didn't realize I had to choose an option in Melodyne,and "Melodic" seems to work OK,though for some reason it won't let me choose"Polyphonic".
 
The source audio is just some clean chords on guitar.
Cheers
Bob
 
PS I NOW realize I need to upgrade to Melodyne Assistant,or Editor to get to use "Polyphonic"
post edited by bobguitkillerleft - 2014/04/23 21:21:43

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#5
Scoot
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/24 00:09:33 (permalink)
stevec
bobguitkillerleft
 
PS I NOW realize I need to upgrade to Melodyne Assistant,or Editor to get to use "Polyphonic"




and then upgrade from Editor to Studio to get Pitch Bend data in the Midi conversion
 
 
 

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sharke
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/24 01:49:57 (permalink)
It's well worth upgrading if and when the next offer comes around. I don't think I would have done it without the discount that was offered last year, but I'm glad I did. The polyphonic mode leads to musical ideas you would never have had otherwise and is a boon for anyone like me who is crap at keyboards but proficient on guitar. 
 
In general, I feel that it helps to turn the tone knob right down when you record the guitar, probably because it filters out a lot of the kind of harmonics that confuse Melodyne and emphasizes the fundamentals you want the pitches of. 

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Cactus Music
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/24 14:20:24 (permalink)
Or buy a Guitar synth rig which is a lot more fun and probably not much more cash. 
 
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TriplePlayPU
 


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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/24 14:24:39 (permalink)
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MeloEd2EsUp/
 
Yes it looks like Melodyn is about $250 for the upgrade, the Fishman is $150 more. Just think what you can do with that! The main thing is you can listen in real time to what your getting. 
I have even played drum parts on my old clunker GR 50. 

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mmorgan
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/24 15:38:52 (permalink)
I've got the Fishman. It is not a product I would recommend. YMMV
 
Regards, 


Mike

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jb101
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/24 18:33:13 (permalink)
As I mentioned in another thread, maybe have a look at Jam Origin's MIDI guitar.
 
From what little time I've had to play with it, it has impressed me so far.
 
There is a free demo, too.

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Cactus Music
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/24 21:15:42 (permalink)
That's interesting Mike, could you elaborate? Most reviews give it a thumbs up. I understand the limitations of guitar synths so I'd be interested in what you had issue with. You certainly have to adapt your playing style with them, but the same would be true of converting an audio guitar track with Melodyne. 
 
Interesting software jb, I'm downloading now. Will give it a go, but $100 is to much if all it does is duplicate what Melodyne already does. 

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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/24 21:51:16 (permalink)
Not MIDI, but still cool:
 
Just got this great solo guitar demo tutorial from Celemony in my mail:
 
http://www.celemony.com/e...GuitarTechniques-SD-HD

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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/24 22:49:28 (permalink)
jb101
As I mentioned in another thread, maybe have a look at Jam Origin's MIDI guitar.
 
From what little time I've had to play with it, it has impressed me so far.
 
There is a free demo, too.


 
as a guy who not only has owned a midi guitar since 1982 ..
who also happened to work at Manny's Music on West 48 th street in the gtr dept  for years …back in the day
 
I haven't seen much happen over the past few  years that has  improved much over my current hardware midi guitar 
 
I'm vey impressed with the Jam Origin's Midi Guitar …it tracks better than my hardware midi guitar 
 
anyway,
I'm not looking to spam you guys with my latest tune , but I did use that plug to input all my synths via the guitar 
in this song 
every note was played via my guitar except the bass which I played in real time and the drums ..the drums were midis from Addictive Drums
 
Guitar  Synth Soundscape 
 
https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson/guitar-synth-soundscape
 
 
Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2014/04/24 22:59:42

                   
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mmorgan
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/24 23:11:24 (permalink)
Cactus Music
That's interesting Mike, could you elaborate? Most reviews give it a thumbs up. I understand the limitations of guitar synths so I'd be interested in what you had issue with. You certainly have to adapt your playing style with them, but the same would be true of converting an audio guitar track with Melodyne. 
 
Interesting software jb, I'm downloading now. Will give it a go, but $100 is to much if all it does is duplicate what Melodyne already does. 




Hi Cactus. I had high hopes for the Fishman which was why I made the purchase. In standalone mode I was never able to set the input to ASIO without a crash. That is the primary thing. I've had issues with DAWs where I have installed a track with the Fishman where suddenly it seems I have introduced instability. I cannot attribute causality to the Fishman but I do note that a particular project may be edited for hours/days with no issues and I try and introduce the Fishman and some time later (as in that editing session) I have a crash...in the sense of a lockup. Again I can't attribute causality but I keep seeing it happen...I attribute it the aforementioned ASIO setting but I could be wrong.
 
I have previously worked with my Axon AX100 MK II with a Godin SA nylon string guitar...Have you ever tried restringing a nylon stringed guitar? Not for the faint of heart  But the AX100 has always been flawless.
 
It may be of some interest to others that based on the current SOS review of MIDI Guitar I D/L and installed and I'm having the same issue with setting the sound card driver to ASIO. I have a trouble ticket in to those folks so I'm hopeful.
 
In the end I think I should just take lessons on keyboards. LOL
 
Regards,


Mike

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Cactus Music
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/24 23:47:03 (permalink)
OK. so it might not work with Sonar, but in stand alone mode did it track OK? 
 
Hi Kenny, yes I've always wanted a Godin. I used to sell the whole line back in the 90's just when that came out. They do make the steel string version but run around $1,000. 
I still have my old GR 50 but the synth is pretty old school. 
 
I just opened the Jam Software, looks like freeware but I'll give it a go.. might need a better computer then I have for latency. 

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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/25 00:03:58 (permalink)
Cactus how would stand alone solve my issue if I'm tracking in a DAW? The Fishman tracks okay within a given DAW until I have a system lock up...which is not something I want in either mode, hosted or standalone. It may track okay in standalone but I'm a studio rat into production not live performance. My guess, though, is that if I can't set the output to ASIO I'm up she-ite creek with means of propulsion.
 
Regards,


Mike

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mudgel
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/25 00:29:38 (permalink)
I've had great success with my AX100 using my rebuilt strat with a complete Graphtec Ghost hexpander system. It's so much better to start with the MIDI than to have to convert existing audio to midi.
Mind you if that's all you can do, Melodyne's a great tool to have in your kit bag.

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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/25 02:46:06 (permalink)
kennywtelejazz
I'm not looking to spam you guys with my latest tune , but I did use that plug to input all my synths via the guitar 
in this song 
every note was played via my guitar except the bass which I played in real time and the drums ..the drums were midis from Addictive Drums



I bought a GR-30 years and years ago but never used a DAW much at that time, so sadly it went back in its box. After this post I may have to get that out again and give it another workout. I never even tried to connect it to a computer way back when.
 

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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/25 05:19:40 (permalink)
mettelus
kennywtelejazz
I'm not looking to spam you guys with my latest tune , but I did use that plug to input all my synths via the guitar 
in this song 
every note was played via my guitar except the bass which I played in real time and the drums ..the drums were midis from Addictive Drums



I bought a GR-30 years and years ago but never used a DAW much at that time, so sadly it went back in its box. After this post I may have to get that out again and give it another workout. I never even tried to connect it to a computer way back when.
 




imho . I would say you have nothing to loose by dusting off your midi guitar interface and plugging it into your DAW...
guitar synths are somewhat finicky when it comes to the pitch to voltage midi conversion so you might have to bone up on some of your guitar playing chops  …
once you find a happy medium of what you can play cleanly onto your DAW you might be very surprised at what you may be able to accomplish…….
once you get started , remember the piano roll is your friend  
 
heres an example a song that I did where the midi guitar part is playing the Sax melody….Dimension Pro 
 
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=427899&songID=6167830
 
this clip was done in 2008 . I played  my Ibanez IMG 2010 with the  MC1 interface…..
 
btw...I just  listened to it to see if I wanted to post it here after all this time …
i was still somewhat green on how to use a DAW when I recorded this , so I'm putting myself out there on a limb….
if you can look past the genre, the mix , some of the rendered BIAB backing track cheesyness and say OK the sax part was done on a midi guitar by a guy who can't even play chopsticks on a piano even if his life depended on it ….
then my example might be of some value to you ...
interestingly enough , even if I could play the sax part on a keyboard it wouldn't of had the same nuances that the guitar as a midi controller brought to the table ….
 
Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2014/04/25 06:10:13

                   
Oh Yeah , Life is Good .
The internet is nothing more than a glorified real time cartoon we all star in.
I play a "Gibson " R 8 Les Paul Cherry Sunburst .
The Love of my Life is an American Bulldog Named Duke . I'm currently running Cakewalk By BandLab as my DAW .
 
https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson
 
https://www.youtube.com/user/Kennywtelejazz/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1
 
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=427899



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jb101
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/25 06:27:21 (permalink)
kennywtelejazz
jb101
As I mentioned in another thread, maybe have a look at Jam Origin's MIDI guitar.
 
From what little time I've had to play with it, it has impressed me so far.
 
There is a free demo, too.


 
I'm vey impressed with the Jam Origin's Midi Guitar …it tracks better than my hardware midi guitar 
 
 
Kenny




Me too.
 
I like the fact that you can set whether or not it will track string bends as well.
 
It's so easy to use, and being able to control any synth, with very low latency is great.
 
I remember playing round with guitar synths in the eighties - I had to change the whole way of how/what I played, and even how I held the guitar.  This software is pretty nice, and great fun.

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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/25 14:05:38 (permalink)
jb101
kennywtelejazz
jb101
As I mentioned in another thread, maybe have a look at Jam Origin's MIDI guitar.
 
From what little time I've had to play with it, it has impressed me so far.
 
There is a free demo, too.


 
I'm vey impressed with the Jam Origin's Midi Guitar …it tracks better than my hardware midi guitar 
 
 
Kenny




Me too.
 
I like the fact that you can set whether or not it will track string bends as well.
 
It's so easy to use, and being able to control any synth, with very low latency is great.
 
I remember playing round with guitar synths in the eighties - I had to change the whole way of how/what I played, and even how I held the guitar.  This software is pretty nice, and great fun.




+1
a couple of other things I also like about the Midi Guitar plug is it has an onboard tuner that is easy to access ,
it's even polyphonic .
you can also see what's going on with how much signal your guitar is putting through it in the wave form view...
the amp/ effects output section is pretty interesting . 
adding a vst audio effect and applying it to the audio signal of my guitar combined with the midi synth that was being triggered was a pretty awesome thing to have access to sound wise .  I've only used that feature in stand alone playing so far .
 
I've had decent results playing any electric guitar i own through it , that includes Jazz Box's with flat wound 012's...
there's a lot of freedom in being able to do that 
I like the plug for sure and I have no affiliation w Jam O…. 
 
Kenny
 

                   
Oh Yeah , Life is Good .
The internet is nothing more than a glorified real time cartoon we all star in.
I play a "Gibson " R 8 Les Paul Cherry Sunburst .
The Love of my Life is an American Bulldog Named Duke . I'm currently running Cakewalk By BandLab as my DAW .
 
https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson
 
https://www.youtube.com/user/Kennywtelejazz/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1
 
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=427899



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mettelus
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/25 14:48:46 (permalink)
Thanks for the post Kenny! I am starting to delve back into keyboard lately, but the pitch/mod wheels don't feel the same as playing those same notes on a guitar. Ideally, I would prefer to record the MIDI information in case I wanted to change the instrument at a later point, but not sure if the GR-30 sound bank can be used without running a loop to the physical hardware (trying to remember now what the software was that came with it). I guess that is sort of moot, since I really should learn that part anyway as folks do it with keyboards all the time. I guess I have my new "weekend project."

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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/25 19:36:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2014/09/09 11:13:35
mettelus
Thanks for the post Kenny! I am starting to delve back into keyboard lately, but the pitch/mod wheels don't feel the same as playing those same notes on a guitar. Ideally, I would prefer to record the MIDI information in case I wanted to change the instrument at a later point, but not sure if the GR-30 sound bank can be used without running a loop to the physical hardware (trying to remember now what the software was that came with it). I guess that is sort of moot, since I really should learn that part anyway as folks do it with keyboards all the time. I guess I have my new "weekend project."




your welcome 
 
here's a couple of quick things off the top of my head that I like to do when I'm using a hardware midi guitar...
 
1, make sure it is absolutely dead on in tune ...  
 
2 , keep it simple and pick the same midi channel for all six strings if your just looking to lay down parts one at a time ...
later on when you feel like experementing around you can always set up a synth like the Dimension Pro with 4 separate instruments on different midi channels and see what happens when setup your midi guitar to have different sets of strings set to different midi channels.  
 
3 , these hardware midi guitars  can be vey glitchy so figure out what range of the synth you are looking to play 
for example , if you are playing a lot of low notes on the low E and the low A and what you are looking to play isn't using much of the higher strings of the midi guitar ….transpose your midi guitar to play an octave lower ...
by transposing you midi guitar to play an octave lower you can now use the most effective range of you hardware midi guitar  midi guitars always seem to play a lot better on the top 4 strings …very few glitches happen there compared to the 2 low strings…..
the same goes for an octave higher ..if your high strings a glitchy ..play your parts on the middle strings 
 
4 , experiment with the patch that tracks the best on your system and use it when you record the midi data
then change it over to what you want later on..
what I mean by that is suppose you have a patch you know you want to use , but when you record it , it doesn't record smooth … I've had this happen to me plenty of times ...
I pick a patch I know I can play with a fast attack so I can stay in time with the tempo of the song ...
I did that with the Sax thing I posted …I used a piano sound as I recorded and while I was recording / playing I tried my best to think like a Sax…..
once I was somewhat happy with the performance I switched the patch over to Sax and messed around with the velocities 
 
5 , it's not cheating when the songs tempo is faster then what your hardware guitar synth can play for you to change the tempo for midi guitar tracking 
it is always better for you to slow the song down a little so you can comfortably play your hardware guitar synth in tempo with the song …this works great if everything is still in midi 
 
6 , it is always a good idea to use the metronome in addition to what ever you happen to be playing along with ….
 
7, when I doubt , always remember the piano roll is your friend 
 
having to put this together was fun …I hope it can help 
 
Kenny

                   
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#24
gswitz
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/26 20:46:56 (permalink)
For comparison, I converted the Guitars Direct input using Melodyne and show it compared with the midi track recorded from the Roland GR-20. The GR-20 is closer to what I intended, but they are both very close.
 


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mettelus
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/27 05:31:54 (permalink)
I may not be using Melodyne to its full potential, but have not seen any pitch/modulation wheel info created with an "audio to MIDI" conversion. Can this be done?
 
I do remember after reading Kenny's post that the lower strings were "flaky" using the GR-30, but I have not gotten this out again yet to try it. Since the processor correlates bends, I am assuming that a MIDI out of the GR-30 would send those to SONAR, but do not "know" yet.
 
I guess the feature I am most interested in is being able to capture MIDI with the pitch/modulation, especially if recorded via a guitar.

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jb101
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/27 07:31:00 (permalink)
mettelus
I guess the feature I am most interested in is being able to capture MIDI with the pitch/modulation, especially if recorded via a guitar.


Try the free demo of Jam origin's MIDI Guitar.

You can choose whether you want string bends/vibrato picked up or not. It workes really well.

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#27
mmorgan
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/27 08:50:39 (permalink)
Three nights ago I installed Jam Origin's MIDI Guitar for evaluation (this was based on the review in SOS). I was very impressed by it's performance so I made the purchase. I have been testing against my other guitar MIDI controllers and it seems better particularly if one is willing to use the built in controls for setting sensitivity.
 
+several for Jam Origin MIDI Guitar.
 
Regards,


Mike

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#28
DeeringAmps
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/27 10:23:09 (permalink)
RE: Jam Origin MIDI Guitar
Just drop the dll into the VST folder?
On their website they mention a registry change when using Sonar X2; is that necessary?
 
T

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Anderton
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Re: Converting simple clean guitar to MIDI with Melodyne ARA 2014/04/27 11:35:25 (permalink)
For me, the patch is crucial for MIDI guitar to work correctly. I always set each string to its own channel, so that the target voice can be set to monophonic. That way it feels and plays more like a real guitar, which can play only one note per string.
 
Rapture is great for MIDI guitar...six elements each on their own channel, with the option of one note per element.

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