Convincing fake drums

Anybody here creating and recording songs using midi drums like superior drummer, BFD, or even Cakewalks built in drums?
 
Is it possible to get them real sounding? I always find the cymbals lacking.

Cakewalk used to sell these extra programs a long time ago that "humanize" MIDI by moving the notes a bit (can't remember the names at the moment - I still have them somewhere).  Even the best drummer will still be a few milliseconds off but, where people tend to fail when they manually change notes, is that they do too much inconsistently.  A good drummer will usually be either a little too fast or slow but not both and will stay in a tight range like 2-5ms off.  I've found that having the notes a bit faster than the beat tends to make the song seem more energetic.  Obviously having them all hit right on time makes it sound like a machine.
 
Oh yeah, the other thing to vary (and this can vary significantly compared to timing) is the volume of each note.  It's much more difficult to hit every note with the same strength even if you were trying to.  
 
To get a good idea of the ranges for both, take Dave's idea and have a live drummer play an electronic kit while recording the MIDI.  Remember you can treat parts of the drum kit differently due to the note values so it's possible to add a little something something to just the cymbals if desired.

Jamstix is the best way I've found of humanizing drums. Once you understand its quirky workflow and interface nothing gives you so much control over the groove, style and feel. Even if you just use it to humanize your own MIDI grooves the results are fantastic. It adds a dimension to the timing and dynamics of your drum parts which is all but impossible with PRV editing.

bitflipperHowever, that does not mean that randomized timing will make it sound more human. This is because humans' timing variances are not random.
 

well said and that`s the beauty of real drummers-they can get behind or ahead or just swing which allows so much latitude and when you all arrive back on the 1together is part of the magic of being a musician.
no offense to anyone and all practicalities aside with consideration to the hobbyists ,fake drums are just that-a bit like driving an automatic transmission(Drumagog) compared to a manual(DW Kit): we don`t always get a choice but.
 
I am only contributing to this thread because I had to turn away a client who insisted on fixed latency and auto align on his drums-advised him to go home and practise with a metronome.
enough said
cheers   

webbs hill studio

bitflipperHowever, that does not mean that randomized timing will make it sound more human. This is because humans' timing variances are not random.
 

well said and that`s the beauty of real drummers-they can get behind or ahead or just swing which allows so much latitude and when you all arrive back on the 1together is part of the magic of being a musician.
no offense to anyone and all practicalities aside with consideration to the hobbyists ,fake drums are just that-a bit like driving an automatic transmission(Drumagog) compared to a manual(DW Kit): we don`t always get a choice but.
 
I am only contributing to this thread because I had to turn away a client who insisted on fixed latency and auto align on his drums-advised him to go home and practise with a metronome.
enough said
cheers   

Not much you can do with a musician that doesn't know their instrument. I've used feel variances in the tempo to to emphasize phrase. That kind of thing makes your sound different and my point of view, from experience, is if all the instruments do it together it will work. You can't go overboard either. I believe it's the subtleness of it that makes it work

For me that's the beauty of AD2! I've found every drum sound I was looking for with it. I wind up with quite a hybrid kit but the sound of the pieces is what I love about it! I played countless gigs but I always listened to the drummer. 
 

Mr. torture
Anybody here creating and recording songs using midi drums like superior drummer, BFD, or even Cakewalks built in drums?
 
Is it possible to get them real sounding? I always find the cymbals lacking.

I did fake drums for 20 years and after all of that time and work....they sound like fake drums with 20 years behind them.  
 
I can almost always tell when drums aren't real.  And for the reason Bitflipper mentioned - the performance.  It will give you away.  Plus, fake snares and toms tend to lend themselves to big, commercial sound.  You can just tell a sample was made in a studio where they expect my beat to be really, really slow and simple.  And, fake drums become more noticeable when they get busier - so keeping them simple helps keep the man behind the curtain, so to speak. 
 
The only way to get close to real human feel is note-by-note editing.  I actually would play drums in my lap so I could feel how my hit intensity changed from note to note...and try to mimic that pattern note by note.  Took forever to do a drum track.  Honestly, I felt some of the feel was there, but something was always wrong....always...