Copied/pasted tracks/clips out of sync....

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Timothy Brickley
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2018/11/16 17:28:34 (permalink)

Copied/pasted tracks/clips out of sync....

Hi Folks:
Trying to edit a multitrack master - audio and midi, lots of edited, individual clips per track. When I copy the entire thing (either by command or click and drag) and paste it, it's all out of sync. Any help greatly appreciated and thank you!
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Copied/pasted tracks/clips out of sync.... 2018/11/16 17:41:57 (permalink)
    You'll need to clarify exactly what you're selecting, where you're pasting it, and in what way and to what extent it's out of sync - milliseconds, beats or measures? Do you have Snap enabled, and with what options (Snap To/By, Landmarks, etc.)? And is it MIDI is out of sync with audio, or both are out of sync with the  audio metronome?
     
    Since you're new to the forum (welcome aboard!), it would also be helpful to know your general experience level with Cakewalk/SONAR.

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    #2
    Moxica
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    Re: Copied/pasted tracks/clips out of sync.... 2018/11/16 20:09:49 (permalink)
    Ctrl + shift key while you drag selected tracks/clips, would keep then in place..
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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Copied/pasted tracks/clips out of sync.... 2018/11/16 20:21:07 (permalink)
    It might help if you explain what your wishing to do? You say a Master? that is normally a stereo file.
    If all your trying to do is make a copy of a Cakewalk project just use "save as" and re name it.
    If you dragging from another DAW into Sonar then best to have all those tracks start at Zero and depending on the DAW bounce all clips into one long track.
    Midi is easy, just save the song as a midi file and then OPEN that in Sonar.. then drag the audio from the other DAW>

    Johnny V  
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    #4
    bvideo
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    Re: Copied/pasted tracks/clips out of sync.... 2018/11/16 20:51:32 (permalink)
    Whatever is copied needs to include tempo changes as part of the copy or else needs to be pasted on top of an exactly matching set of tempo changes. MIDI and audio will behave differently in this regard, which a big reason this is important.
     
    If just moving the whole thing along the timeline, it might work better to insert empty measures.

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    #5
    Timothy Brickley
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    Re: Copied/pasted tracks/clips out of sync.... 2018/11/18 19:31:49 (permalink)
    Hi Folks:
      Thank you so much to each of you for replying. I will try and provide some context here. I am a longtime Cakewalk/Sonar user, but have cobbled together my own approach through the years, and have not ever really participated much in the online community, or dived to deep into Sonar technical details. I started on 2" tape, so basically use Sonar as a substitute - I run 24-discrete 96/24 audio channels back into my console to mix. Until about a year ago I was blissfully on Sonar 7 on Windows XP, getting fine results. But finally wrangled a new system - fast box from Sweetwater, two new MOTU 24ai/ao's.
       So this track I am working on is typical for me. 50 channels of drums, bass, acoustic and electric guitars, Stylophone and Wurlitzer, plus MIDI softsynth piano and synth, and lots of layered vocals. Still editing - so approx. 20 of the 50 tracks are archived. Lots of editing, so lots of individual, edited audio clips in each track.
       I need to do some big, arrangement editing - shorten a breakdown session by 4 bars, then copy and paste an extra chorus at the end, So: I just want to select ALL tracks from a certain point, copy and insert at a certain point. Won't work. Can't even copy everything and try and paste a second copy after the first (so I could just edit each and join together) but when I paste that copy everything is out of sync.
       This was done to a click - normally, I don't and when editing I just line things up by ear. Snap was not on. Seems to be randomly out differently on the various tracks. The softhsynth Moog patch is frozen (don't have the synth on this new system, so just using the audio. The softsynth piano was not frozen at the time.
       Hey, thanks again for any help, folks - it's funny, I finally bought the new Sonar about a week before the Gibson shutdown, so while not happy to be out all that money, happy to see the new Cakewalk era! Cheers - TB
     
       
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    Anderton
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    Re: Copied/pasted tracks/clips out of sync.... 2018/11/18 19:37:49 (permalink)
    Don't know if this relates to your issues, but I had something similar happen. The problem was that when the project was zoomed way out, sometimes I clicked on a clip to move it, but there was a very slight mouse movement that moved the clip in time by a small amount.
     
    I could never figure out why the rhythm of the tracks were "fighting" until I zoomed way in and saw there were some slight offsets to the clips. Apparently this happened to some drum tracks, so parts overdubbed to them were off as well.

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    SandlinJohn
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    Re: Copied/pasted tracks/clips out of sync.... 2018/11/18 20:50:12 (permalink)
    Timothy Brickley
    Hi Folks:
      Thank you so much to each of you for replying. I will try and provide some context here. I am a longtime Cakewalk/Sonar user, but have cobbled together my own approach through the years, and have not ever really participated much in the online community, or dived to deep into Sonar technical details. I started on 2" tape, so basically use Sonar as a substitute - I run 24-discrete 96/24 audio channels back into my console to mix. Until about a year ago I was blissfully on Sonar 7 on Windows XP, getting fine results. But finally wrangled a new system - fast box from Sweetwater, two new MOTU 24ai/ao's.
       So this track I am working on is typical for me. 50 channels of drums, bass, acoustic and electric guitars, Stylophone and Wurlitzer, plus MIDI softsynth piano and synth, and lots of layered vocals. Still editing - so approx. 20 of the 50 tracks are archived. Lots of editing, so lots of individual, edited audio clips in each track.
       I need to do some big, arrangement editing - shorten a breakdown session by 4 bars, then copy and paste an extra chorus at the end, So: I just want to select ALL tracks from a certain point, copy and insert at a certain point. Won't work. Can't even copy everything and try and paste a second copy after the first (so I could just edit each and join together) but when I paste that copy everything is out of sync.
       This was done to a click - normally, I don't and when editing I just line things up by ear. Snap was not on. Seems to be randomly out differently on the various tracks. The softhsynth Moog patch is frozen (don't have the synth on this new system, so just using the audio. The softsynth piano was not frozen at the time.
       Hey, thanks again for any help, folks - it's funny, I finally bought the new Sonar about a week before the Gibson shutdown, so while not happy to be out all that money, happy to see the new Cakewalk era! Cheers - TB

     
    Stylophone!  Now that's an instrument you probably don't see in Mixes often.
     
    I have to wonder if there is a setting that would preserve the position of the data relative to the cut that you have somehow gotten turned off or perhaps something that auto snaps the data that is set on that you don't want adjusting the alignment of your data.
     

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    #8
    brandonc
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    Re: Copied/pasted tracks/clips out of sync.... 2018/11/18 23:16:18 (permalink)
    I had this happen a long time ago. My problem was somehow I switched snap setting from "To" to "BY".
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    Larry Jones
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    Re: Copied/pasted tracks/clips out of sync.... 2018/11/19 02:09:59 (permalink)
    I would try bouncing each track to its own clip, so that every track -- MIDI and audio -- contains just one clip. Then do your rearranging. There might be layers or lanes or some darn invisible thing that's not getting included in your copy & paste.
     
    In case this turns out to be a bad idea, save a copy of your project first, so you can go back to it and try something else.

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    #10
    brundlefly
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    Re: Copied/pasted tracks/clips out of sync.... 2018/11/19 14:41:07 (permalink)
    SONAR 7 to Platinum a week before the shutdown? That explains your issue here... you just have really bad timing.
     
    Sorry; clouldn't resist. 
     
    So when you copy and paste everything at once, do the clip start times remain aligned? If contiguous audio clips start together, they are going to play in sync with each other, even if there are tempo changes in the region to which you pasted, but unfrozen MIDI could get out of sync with audio because it will follow the tempo changes. And the start times of non-contiguous audio audio clips could also get out of sync because they will follow the MBT with tempo changes. Other than that, I can't really think how anything would get out of sync in that scenario. Definitely check for unintended tempo changes in the timeline.

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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Copied/pasted tracks/clips out of sync.... 2018/11/19 20:36:52 (permalink)
    I have yet to use this feature, But does not RIPPLE EDITTING solve the old buggy copy paste issues?
     
    I have come up with my own workarounds but re arranging a song has always been a huge PITA.
     
    One day I will try Ripple to see if it actually does what I hope it will do.
     
     
    First all tracks need to be split at the points of entry and exit.
    I use SELECT ALL and use snap to grid making sure the split is at a Whole measure 0 point
    Now my workaround.... Pasting into the middle of a song always made a huge mess ,, so I will spilt and slide the end part out of the way of the paste.. I always leave a few extra bars of room so if the paste is 12 bars I slide the ending ( right hand part)  over 14 or 15 , paste, then drag the end ( right hand)  back to the end of the inserted ( left hand) part.

    Johnny V  
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    #12
    Larry Jones
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    Re: Copied/pasted tracks/clips out of sync.... 2018/11/19 21:32:09 (permalink)
    Cactus Music
    I have yet to use this feature, But does not RIPPLE EDITTING solve the old buggy copy paste issues?


    Good point, Johnny. The OP should, at minimum, check to see if Ripple is on or off. This might be the whole problem -- it was for me the last time I was rearranging all the tracks in a song.

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    brundlefly
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    Re: Copied/pasted tracks/clips out of sync.... 2018/11/21 15:29:02 (permalink)
    Ripple Editing does work much better than the old 'Slide Over to Make Room option', which has been broken for a decade at least. For some reason it's still present in Drag and Drop options, and should be changed to 'Blend'. But the OP said he had problems even pasting a copy of the project to a point after the existing material ended, and that the pasted material was out of sync, whereas the problem with Slide Over affected only the downstream material getting moved out of the way. So I think there' still something going on here that's not going to get fixed by Ripple Editing unless I misunderstood the problem description.

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