PeterMc
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Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
If I copy and paste a track within or between projects and the original track has mono interleave, the copy has stereo interleave. This matters if the original track is panned away from center (e.g. 100%L). The track is now 3dB quieter because I use the default pan law.
It seems Copy/Paste Special doesn't preserve the interleave. Is this right, or a bug? Clone track does preserve the interleave, but I can't use this between projects.
Cheers, Peter.
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gustabo
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Re: Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
2016/06/11 19:23:11
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Does the pan law come into effect here?
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PeterMc
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Re: Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
2016/06/11 20:34:34
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Absolutely. I mentioned this happens under the default pan law. It doesn't happen under the "balance control" law. Haven't tested the others.
I think that Copy/Paste has a bug - it fails to copy the interleave state, even though it copies the phase, volume, pan and seemingly everything else.
Cheers, Peter.
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gustabo
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Re: Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
2016/06/12 00:42:55
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But when you copy a track between projects, you are copying the contents whether it's audio or midi.
It doesn't copy sends, prochannel modules used, volume, pan, etc. why would it copy the interleave setting?
(unless I'm misunderstanding you)
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PeterMc
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Re: Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
2016/06/12 03:17:52
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I'm talking about Copy Special and Paste Special. These commands transfer volume, pan and phase. I would expect them to transfer interleave as well. Otherwise the copy can have a different volume to the original. However, as you say, sends are not copied, nor are inputs/outputs (even if the bus exists in the new project). I haven't tested PC. Finally, I just noticed gain isn't copied either. Seems like there are some inconsistencies here.
Cheers, Peter.
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lfm
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Re: Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
2016/06/12 04:48:53
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If pan law says -3dB center - that is what happends to mono tracks.
There usually is a 0dB alternative also, don't remember about Sonar what they are called.
But that also means you will feel you loose energy when panning from center.
And there usually is some logarithmic alternative too - might be the balanced one.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
2016/06/12 05:03:21
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AFAIK, Copy & Paste Special does not pick up Pan, Phase, Volume or Interleave.
The pasted information always inherits the parameters of the Destination Track.
If you're seeing something different it would be useful to describe exactly what you're doing, step by step
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PeterMc
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Re: Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
2016/06/12 06:44:15
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OK, try this:
1. Start with a new blank project.
2. Add a track, ensuring the input is a mono source.
3. Enable record and record a few seconds of silence.
4. Set volume, gain and pan to something random (not zero).
5. In the track inspector, set the interleave to mono and the phase to inverted.
6. Select the track and copy using ctrl-alt-C (shortcut for Copy Special)
7. Paste the track using ctrl-alt-V, choosing a new track in the paste dialog
8. A copy of the original track appears as track2.
Now, which settings (out of vol,gain,pan,interleave,phase) copy correctly, and which don't?
Cheers, Peter.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
2016/06/12 10:38:56
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7. Paste the track using ctrl-alt-V, choosing a new track in the paste dialog
This is the part that will cause the destination track to inherit the source track's properties
If you insert a track before the paste whatever parameters the inserted track have will be preserved after pasting.
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Keni
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Re: Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
2016/06/12 13:09:13
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Any reason to not to simply clone the track?
I'm also thinking whether you needed to copy the track or copy the clip?
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chilldanny
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Re: Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
2016/06/12 15:10:42
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
2016/06/12 15:54:38
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That would seem right.
If you don't want that to happen then you start by inserting a blank track, setting the parameters you want before pasting.
Cloning should work equally well.
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PeterMc
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Re: Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
2016/06/12 17:04:39
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Bristol: what I'm seeing is that the new track only inherits some of the properties from the old track. I could set all the properties first, but that's laborious. Cloning is better, but doesn't work between projects (which is what I really need to do).
Keni: While cloning works within the same project, I want to copy multiple tracks into a new project.
Chilldanny: That's exactly what I see, although I use Copy/Paste Special after selecting the whole track. Gain also fails to copy properly. Vol, pan & phase are OK. Good point about the bug fix - maybe this was an unintended consequence.
Thanks everyone for your input.
Cheers, Peter.
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John T
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Re: Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
2016/06/12 17:20:48
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Yeah, I've often thought a full on "Copy track" feature would be good, for the specific reason of moving stuff from project to project.
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scook
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Re: Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
2016/06/12 17:30:47
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Try
Creating a track template from the source project
Import the track template into the target project
Copy track data from source to target
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PeterMc
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Re: Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
2016/06/12 19:18:11
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Thx. That seems to work best of all methods, since it also recreates the required buses, and all the FX are there.
However, track templates don't preserve track gain (or inverted phase, which doesn't really matter).
I notice also that the Copy/Paste Special operation doesn't preserve the edits in Melodyne clips. Rendering the clips is a partial solution.
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scook
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Re: Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
2016/06/12 19:32:48
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I am not surprised Region FX on clips are not copied.
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PeterMc
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Re: Copy of mono track is 3dB quieter because interleave gets changed - is this right?
2016/06/14 07:34:56
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So I tested whether a Melodyne Region FX on a clip was copied or not. It varies:
Clone track does (as one might expect)
Drag copy does also (somewhat unexpected, but nice!)
Copy/Paste Special doesn't, although a Melodyne Region FX appears on the clip!
All very confusing really...
It leaves me with the feeling that Copy/Paste Special is a bit broken, which is a shame because it would be the quickest way to copy a track from one project to another. The best way at the moment seems to be to use a track template to copy the track info, then simply copy/paste the clips.
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