Cover - Gino Vannelli's Love Of My Life

So I had the opportunity to work with and learn from Gino Vannelli recently and got inspired to create a modern rock version of his song Love Of My Life.  This is one of his heaviest rock songs, from Gist Of The Gemini 1976.  Although this is a rock song, his original version doesn't have any guitars.  I thought it would be fun to create a rock version that is heavy on guitars. 
 
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11891090
 
This is the second time I recorded this song.  The first time was way back in the 80's when I had to create a demo for an audition for a regional fusion band back then.  I borrowed a friend's TEAC 4 channel reel to reel and quickly taught myself multi-track recording.  I saved the tape, but don't have a tape recorder to play back.  It would be interesting to listen to that old version where I didn't know what I was doing.  Not sure how I would ever be able to do that though, don't know if the tape is any good.

Wow, it takes a vision to remake a song like this in the way you've done.  All I can say is, my hat's off to you with my cellphone raised!  All good.

"Geno Plitt - Love Of My Life" Well, I'd be lying if I said I've never had feelings for Geno, but I wouldn't call him the love of my life? I've managed to bury my emotions. I'm not familiar w/the original, but this wasn't my favorite from you. That's because I've heard some of the really awesome shiz you've put out. This sounded more like a bond theme, crossed and mashed up with the theme from the love boat? So your performance was amazing, as always. It's just that the song isn't blowing my skirt up. Good playing though. Oh that Geno Plitt... SO DREAMY!

I have no idea how you get your fingers to move like that. It must be amazing to see it. You should post a video, really.

Yes, and again, I meant no disrespect? Your performance was top notch. But you don't put out anything that doesn't rock hard... If I had to pick a team from the forum? "you would be on it..." Well me to? :-D I may let you do a fill or two? LOL! No really, you are on a scale of 1 to 10? A strong 10 on your guitar work, singing, etc... Very impressive.

And I'm used to working with one of the best? (Markno999) You guys who are like guitar wizards, and mix wizards? I'm pretty sure you've sold something to someone? I don't know how you do it... "Seriously"

The Band19


Yes, and again, I meant no disrespect? Your performance was top notch. But you don't put out anything that doesn't rock hard... If I had to pick a team from the forum? "you would be on it..." Well me to? :-D I may let you do a fill or two? LOL! No really, you are on a scale of 1 to 10? A strong 10 on your guitar work, singing, etc... Very impressive.

And I'm used to working with one of the best? (Markno999) You guys who are like guitar wizards, and mix wizards? I'm pretty sure you've sold something to someone? I don't know how you do it... "Seriously"

Robby - No disrespect taken.  You talk straight and I appreciate that.  Thanks for all the positive comments.  Yeah Mark is one heck of a master at this stuff.  And your voice on that Van Halen rendition was unbeleivable.
 
Anibus - thanks for listening and commenting.

Danny - Thanks a ton for responding! I'm glad you like the mix as I learned most of these techniques from you. I feel good about the kick / bass low end that I'm getting and I'm glad you're not hearing any bad stuff in that area. Yeah - the drums - well, probably a mixture of me "programming" rather than playing and then not knowing. If you have any specific points that I should review I would love to hear them. I'm going to eventually send this to Gino - and he's a drummer and very very critical. Talk about a perfectionist?

 
Not a problem Geno. On the drums....you have three possible things that I hear. Sorry in advance for the long post, but there's no other way I can explain this stuff.
 
1. The one issue I hear is without being a drummer, sometimes it's really hard to think like a drummer therefore, the parts you program sometimes can seem a little out there...if that makes sense? Like, I've been doing a little programming from my house these days due to beta testing for a few companies. I like to come up with new project sketches utilizing the programs and plugs that I'm testing...and don't have some of my gear wired up to my test boxes. But I notice when I program something on the drums, being somewhat of a drummer, I always program what I would play. Since I've been playing off and on for over 40 years, I sort of know how to think like a drummer. LOL! I gotta admit though.....I HATE programming...but Step Sequencer has made an incredible difference.
 
When I go astray from what I would play or mess around and come up with different weird variations, some of it just doesn't sound humanly possible. So even with the right sounds, touch and velocity, I'm going to pick up that "he programmed that" sort of sound.
 
2. The drum module you choose is super important. Though I love EZD and programs like Addictive etc and think that they are pound for pound some of the best drums modules out there for the price, even with the right velocities these modules will fall short. The reason being? Not enough samples in the pool. This is where modules like Superior (excluding the EZD kits) and BFD 2 blow everyone in the dust. They have so many samples in the pool, you could literally jack up all your velocities to 127 and STILL get really good results. Of course you wouldn't want to do that, but because of the amount of hits they give you, it makes things way more realistic so you have less of a chance of getting that same hit over and over. That's what makes real drums sounds like real drums.
 
For example, when we hit a snare drum in real life. Every place you hit that drum will give you a different sound. Even if you strike it in the same area....the force you use as well as how you direct the stick when it comes down, will give you different results. The same for toms and cymbals. The variables are huge when you can get enough samples for each so that you have less of a chance for "roboticism" as I like to call it. Though I like some of the sounds on our Session Drummer in Sonar, that's the problem with it...it just doesn't have enough samples in the pool to sound realistic at all times.
 
3. Velocity controls are essential as you know...but you may be using too many velocities in the 120 to 127 range for your technical parts. I find that when we are a bit more conservative while staying out of that 120-127 area, and we use lower velocities more often, that we can paint a more realistic picture. The robotics come from like velocities. For example, if you opened up a project and did a drum line with velocoties from 120 to 127....you won't notice much of a difference. You won't start to notice the changes until you get down into the 115 range to be honest. So realistically from MY experience, 118 or so on up, won't give much of a difference.
 
Your best bet when doing these drum lines is to NOT worry about how loud the velocities are making the drums. What I mean by that is, some guys use velocity control for actual volume when realistically, this is where they are failing. We need velocity for dynamics...not volume. You can always turn the track up no matter what velocities you use, know what I mean?
 
Another thing you can do that will be extremely helpful, is to try and search out some real midi loops of guys that have played things on V Drums kits or may have even had midi triggers attached to their real kit. You don't want these to use as loops though....the reason I'd like you to look into them is so you can analyze the velocities they use in some of this stuff.
 
Some of the midi loops created by real drummers are insane with realism. The only way you can get that type of realism is to literally SEE what happens during a big drum fill or during a snare roll, flam or what have you. This is what sort of taught me how to judge and manage my programmed velocities. Let me share something else with you since we're talking about this...as you may find it useful.
 
I created a template long ago with my doing a midi drum check just the way you'd do a drum check in real life. I hit the kick drum like 20 times, then the snare, then the toms, then hats, crashes, rides etc. After that's done, I play the whole kit using various fills, beats, chokes and whatever else I can think up. Once this is all done, I saved it and can bring this midi into any project to pretty much get a drum check on my module of choice that also helps me to set up the eq's and compression just like you would if you were dealing with a real kit. Of course you sort of just get a starting point from this and will have to alter the drum sounds to the song, but you get the idea.
 
From there, by looking at the midi of this drum line, I can see just how the velocities helped to shape what I was playing. Snare stuff, hats, or whatever else. Once I see how I get a certain thing to sounds a certain way that also maintains a human feel to it, I make a note of what order the velocities were to achieve that type of sound. What I've found out is, just about always, none of them end up in the 120-127 range on technical, finesse type passes. There are usually more ghost strokes in the 70's and 80's than we know...but unless we can physically see this and then hear it, we're sort of oblivious to it, know what I mean? I know I was! I was blown away to find out I barely hit 127's other than on crashes, kick drums for steady beats and on certain hat or ride bell hits.
 
So this is all the stuff I'd keep in mind if I were you. I don't know if any of it will help you, but it will at least put you in the right frame of mind when you experiment with this stuff. Hope some of this helps brother. :)
 
-Danny
 
 

Danny - Thanks - Great points.  I'm using Superior all the time now.  On the technical fills I think you revealed my issue.  I do keep the velocities pretty high during those parts so the toms can be heard.  You know there's a point around 90 where if I go below, I lose the attack, and the drum dissappears.  So to keep every note heard I make sure it's above that threshold - and I throw in a lot of really high velocities too for impact.  However, as you said, a real drummer playing fast wouldn't be hitting every stroke near 120 or above.  I'm thinking I probably should be using more compression instead of higher velocities.   I have another project I did last summer which has a lot of quiet passages.  In this one I have no problems with drums at just about any velocity.  I'd love for you to critique my drums in that project.

Dan - Thanks for the comments and suggestions.  This is not the first time I've been accused of being too "busy" with the drum parts!

Don't know the song at all, but the production on this sounds great. Nice to see you back mixing with us wannabes !

Geno,
 
Really fine production.  I had to go listen to Gino's original version for comparison.   You did it justice.   Really smokin guitar licks and vox are stellar.   I agree the drums are a little busy but Danny has given some good advice.   I think that is a common occurence for guitar players, I also suffer from over-drumming.  To battle that urge,  I usually start with a basic MIDI track and then build in fills.   Superior Drummer has some really excellent MIDI drum parts and fills to get started.  Next I will listen to the drums and bass alone to see if it sounds good alone, if it is too busy I start trimming.  
 
Anyway, a minor crit, the production is really top notch stuff.  I am sure Gino will be impressed.   It is amazing how effortlessly you hit those high notes.   Good work.
 
Regards
 
 

Love your take on it.

Well Done all the way around!!!

Wow!!!  What a difficult piece that had to be!  KILLER guitar work dude!  I like the mix and production. 
If I had to make one tiny crit, it would be concerning the choice of reverb on the vocal.  To me (for whatever that's worth..lol), it doesn't fit the rest of the mix space  (too small?).  Or possibly some predelay might have sweetened it up a bit.

Other than that, AWESOME!

Now... tell me a bit about how ya got that guitar sound.....  ;-)

Great job on this Geno. A little too acrobatic for my tastes but I'm pretty conservative I guess:)
I think the drums are amazing. Programming something like that would put me in an adrenelin coma I think. 
to me, they got kinda buried in the mix though. 
Guits and vocs are as usual top notch.

Tim - Thanks.  Yeah - acrobatic - that's a good description!  I get carried away sometimes.  Glad you like the drums.  Like you said - there are a lot of drum parts that got buried, maybe due to the dense mix - like snare roughs that you can't really hear.

Janet - Thank you - sorry about your fingers..soak them in ice water - that helps! :)

Bob - Thanks, I appreciate the positive comments.