krizrox
Max Output Level: -35 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4046
- Joined: 2003/11/23 09:49:33
- Location: Elgin, IL
- Status: offline
Cracked cymbal
I just noticed one of my studio kit cymbals has developed a small crack on the outer edge of the cymbal. Right now it's about a quarter inch long. I know if I don't do something it will just get worse so I'd like to entertain the idea of a repair - if that's even possible. This is a rather expensive cymbal to replace (a Paiste 16" fast crash which retails for around $300). I love the cymbal and would consider getting another one but if I can get a few more years out of this one that would be awesome. Have any of you ever tried to have a cymbal repaired. I guess a small hole drilled at the end of the crack would at least slow the damage down right? But is that the best answer?
Larry Kriz www.LnLRecording.com www.myspace.com/lnlrecording Sonar PE 8.5, Samplitude Pro 11, Sonic Core Scope Professional/XTC, A16 Ultra AD/DA, Intel DG965RY MOBO, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz processor, XFX GeForce 7300 GT PCIe video card, Barracuda 750 & 320GB SATA drives, 4GB DDR Ram, Plextor DVD/CD-R burner.
|
krizrox
Max Output Level: -35 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4046
- Joined: 2003/11/23 09:49:33
- Location: Elgin, IL
- Status: offline
Re:Cracked cymbal
2010/03/05 12:47:20
(permalink)
Thanks - I had done a little checking around the internet too and there didn't seem to be any super positive things to say about cymbal repair in general. At very least, drilling a small hole at the end of the crack should hopefully keep it from spreading. With the crack being so small as it is, I doubt a small hole is going to alter the sound much if at all. If this wasn't so frigin expensive, I'd just use it until it gets so bad I can't stand it anymore and then replace it. Actually, I had forgotten how expensive these Paiste cymbals were. I bought them brand new about 8 years ago so I guess I've gotten my money's worth out of them. The drum set has paid for itself a few times over at this point. But I don't necessarily relish paying another $300 for a crash cymbal for the studio so punk rockers can bash the crap out of it :-)
Larry Kriz www.LnLRecording.com www.myspace.com/lnlrecording Sonar PE 8.5, Samplitude Pro 11, Sonic Core Scope Professional/XTC, A16 Ultra AD/DA, Intel DG965RY MOBO, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz processor, XFX GeForce 7300 GT PCIe video card, Barracuda 750 & 320GB SATA drives, 4GB DDR Ram, Plextor DVD/CD-R burner.
|
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 9871
- Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
- Location: Ohio
- Status: offline
Re:Cracked cymbal
2010/03/05 17:45:41
(permalink)
I just noticed one of my studio kit cymbals has developed a small crack on the outer edge of the cymbal. Right now it's about a quarter inch long. I know if I don't do something it will just get worse so I'd like to entertain the idea of a repair - if that's even possible. This is a rather expensive cymbal to replace (a Paiste 16" fast crash which retails for around $300). I love the cymbal and would consider getting another one but if I can get a few more years out of this one that would be awesome. Have any of you ever tried to have a cymbal repaired. I guess a small hole drilled at the end of the crack would at least slow the damage down right? But is that the best answer? Hi Larry, Sorry about the cymbal. The higher end Paiste cymbals are fantastic. Unfortunately, you're going to need to replace said cymbal. Into the future, I'd talk to the guys playing the kit. There's no reason to beat a 16" crash cymbal that hard. If they want a bigger sound, go for a 18" or 20" crash instead of thrashing the 16. If they want to play ridiculously hard, I wouldn't let them use your nice/expensive cymbals.
|
krizrox
Max Output Level: -35 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4046
- Joined: 2003/11/23 09:49:33
- Location: Elgin, IL
- Status: offline
Re:Cracked cymbal
2010/03/05 18:39:09
(permalink)
My studio kit is a Yamaha Stage Custom. All the cymbals are Paiste sig series (except the hats which are Zildjian). I had forgotten how much I paid for those cymbals. Yikes. I think they were more expensive than the drums themselves. If I had to do it all over again, not sure I would have bought the most expensive cymbals in the store but considering the cymbals are going on 8 years now, I'd say I got my money's worth.
Everyone says forget it so I'll just let it be and when it goes by by I'll replace it.
As far as the talent is concerned, generally everyone has treated the drums with respect. I was just kidding about the punk rockers. It's really the thrash metal dudes I have to keep an eye on :-)
Larry Kriz www.LnLRecording.com www.myspace.com/lnlrecording Sonar PE 8.5, Samplitude Pro 11, Sonic Core Scope Professional/XTC, A16 Ultra AD/DA, Intel DG965RY MOBO, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz processor, XFX GeForce 7300 GT PCIe video card, Barracuda 750 & 320GB SATA drives, 4GB DDR Ram, Plextor DVD/CD-R burner.
|
Jonbouy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 22562
- Joined: 2008/04/14 13:47:39
- Location: England's Sunshine South Coast
- Status: offline
Re:Cracked cymbal
2010/03/05 18:43:20
(permalink)
Top end cymbals are expensive because they tend to be cast metal and therefore prone to cracking. If somebody is hitting cymbals hard enough to crack them though they don't need to be playing your nice Paiste cymbals. Get a set of cheaper pressed metal ones for that kind of abuse (Pearl used to do some fairly cheap half-decent sounding ones) for the abusers to use. As for the cracked one if it still serviceable you could try the drill hole treatment but personally I'd just leave it and hope until it goes too dull sounding to be of any use. I had a turkish Zildjian C/R with a small outer edge crack for many years that didn't get any worse (in fact it recorded better as the decay was slightly quicker) so you maybe lucky but have a replacement ready.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2010/03/05 18:46:30
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
|
krizrox
Max Output Level: -35 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4046
- Joined: 2003/11/23 09:49:33
- Location: Elgin, IL
- Status: offline
Re:Cracked cymbal
2010/03/06 08:15:27
(permalink)
Jonbouy
Get a set of cheaper pressed metal ones for that kind of abuse (Pearl used to do some fairly cheap half-decent sounding ones) for the abusers to use.
That's actually not a bad idea. Thanks!
Larry Kriz www.LnLRecording.com www.myspace.com/lnlrecording Sonar PE 8.5, Samplitude Pro 11, Sonic Core Scope Professional/XTC, A16 Ultra AD/DA, Intel DG965RY MOBO, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz processor, XFX GeForce 7300 GT PCIe video card, Barracuda 750 & 320GB SATA drives, 4GB DDR Ram, Plextor DVD/CD-R burner.
|
Chappel
Max Output Level: -52.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2300
- Joined: 2009/07/11 14:55:32
- Location: California
- Status: offline
Re:Cracked cymbal
2010/03/06 09:20:55
(permalink)
If you do decide to have the cymbal repaired by welding or brazing (and they can be) find out the components of the alloy used to make the cymbal. Different materials will have different melting points and the breakdown might be useful to the welder in making a decision to weld or braze and how hot to run the torch.
|
krizrox
Max Output Level: -35 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4046
- Joined: 2003/11/23 09:49:33
- Location: Elgin, IL
- Status: offline
Re:Cracked cymbal
2010/03/17 08:50:29
(permalink)
For what it's worth - I found a guy who repairs cymbals by grinding them down. I am contemplating sending my cracked cymbal to him for repair since the crack is small (yet). I know the sound will change but if it keeps the cymbal going for a few more years I'll be happy. His quote was $20 which seems almost ridiculously cheap for such work. I don't know what to expect since I've never been down this road before. I've also considered not doing anything and just letting it die of natural causes (which many of my drummer friends recommended). In the meantime I'll be looking at less expensive alternatives as replacements for the thrashers. Here is the guy's contact info if it helps anyone else with the same predicament. I had found him at the following website: http://www.thatcymbalguy.com/ Craig Campbell (314) 776-6200 Ext. 206
post edited by krizrox - 2010/03/17 08:53:55
Larry Kriz www.LnLRecording.com www.myspace.com/lnlrecording Sonar PE 8.5, Samplitude Pro 11, Sonic Core Scope Professional/XTC, A16 Ultra AD/DA, Intel DG965RY MOBO, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz processor, XFX GeForce 7300 GT PCIe video card, Barracuda 750 & 320GB SATA drives, 4GB DDR Ram, Plextor DVD/CD-R burner.
|
jimmyrage
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 238
- Joined: 2010/02/05 18:12:35
- Location: Norfolk Va.
- Status: offline
Re:Cracked cymbal
2010/03/17 18:19:38
(permalink)
Let us know how it turns out. I've thrown several away over the years.
|
Guitarhacker
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 24398
- Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
- Location: NC
- Status: offline
Re:Cracked cymbal
2010/03/17 20:56:24
(permalink)
Larry, A cracked cymbal is forever cracked so.... yeah...spend the $20 and get it fixed. I used to play with a drummer that routinely cracked his cymbals. He rode those things like a nasty mule. He'd carry them home... drill them and keep playing them. He also went through sticks, cause the way he hit the cymbals was on the edge into the cymbals....chewed up the stix real bad..... and cracked the thin cymbals pretty quickly..... They would eventually crack again. One even broke from the drill hole in a circular pattern..... he snapped the remaining metal and the crash became a splash. One of my friends locally still ahs one of his cracked cymbals hanging on his wall...... I like the idea of 2 sets of cymbals..... keep the good ones...or better yet..... require the drummers to bring their own cymbals, and that takes your nice ones out of the danger zone. Problem solved..... drummers that have nice cymbals would probably want to use their own anyway... if not, have some "el-cheapo's " for general use. Keep the good ones out of sight.
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2010/03/17 20:58:37
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
|
krizrox
Max Output Level: -35 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4046
- Joined: 2003/11/23 09:49:33
- Location: Elgin, IL
- Status: offline
Re:Cracked cymbal
2010/03/18 14:33:48
(permalink)
Guitarhacker
Larry,
A cracked cymbal is forever cracked so.... yeah...spend the $20 and get it fixed.
I like the idea of 2 sets of cymbals..... keep the good ones...or better yet..... require the drummers to bring their own cymbals, and that takes your nice ones out of the danger zone. Problem solved..... drummers that have nice cymbals would probably want to use their own anyway... if not, have some "el-cheapo's " for general use. Keep the good ones out of sight.
Yeah, I've made the decision to send it in for repair. Will probably do that next week when I have a bit of time to find a suitable shipping container. I will definitely look for some cheaper alternatives. As long as we're on that subject, what do you guys recommend as a suitable lower cost replacement? In terms of crashes - something that would appeal to as broad a range of music and styles as possible (but mostly rock, punk, metal, etc). When it comes to cymbals, my ears, admittedly, aren't as fine-tuned as a drummer who has been playing all their life. What personally drove me to the Paiste's was their nice smooth, controlled tail end. Some of the cheaper cymbals I remember auditioning had a sort of unpleasant warble during the trail end of the crash. I've been impressed with some of the Zidjian K series cymbals. Louder and slightly darker sound I think. I have K's on my hi hat.
Larry Kriz www.LnLRecording.com www.myspace.com/lnlrecording Sonar PE 8.5, Samplitude Pro 11, Sonic Core Scope Professional/XTC, A16 Ultra AD/DA, Intel DG965RY MOBO, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz processor, XFX GeForce 7300 GT PCIe video card, Barracuda 750 & 320GB SATA drives, 4GB DDR Ram, Plextor DVD/CD-R burner.
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re:Cracked cymbal
2010/03/18 14:59:49
(permalink)
Zildjan A's all the way around.
Ya know... the Zildjian company doesn't put a name on a cymbal until it's nearly been finished and then a few guys in the test room decide what it is... and then they name it one of the pre established names that seems to describe it's response so customers can have some small chance of buying what they think they are buying.
So, the idea of placing a cymbal on a lathe and cutting the edge back a ways and then thinning it a bit isn't really a option if you like that cymbal the way it is.
It is going to come back a whole new cymbal... hmmm.
I'd be more comfortable sending that fella my brake drums.
I'd personally drill a stop hole and try to preserve the sound you purchased so many years ago.
best,
mike
|
jimmyrage
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 238
- Joined: 2010/02/05 18:12:35
- Location: Norfolk Va.
- Status: offline
Re:Cracked cymbal
2010/03/18 18:07:50
(permalink)
krizrox
Guitarhacker
Larry,
A cracked cymbal is forever cracked so.... yeah...spend the $20 and get it fixed.
I like the idea of 2 sets of cymbals..... keep the good ones...or better yet..... require the drummers to bring their own cymbals, and that takes your nice ones out of the danger zone. Problem solved..... drummers that have nice cymbals would probably want to use their own anyway... if not, have some "el-cheapo's " for general use. Keep the good ones out of sight.
Yeah, I've made the decision to send it in for repair. Will probably do that next week when I have a bit of time to find a suitable shipping container. I will definitely look for some cheaper alternatives. As long as we're on that subject, what do you guys recommend as a suitable lower cost replacement? In terms of crashes - something that would appeal to as broad a range of music and styles as possible (but mostly rock, punk, metal, etc). When it comes to cymbals, my ears, admittedly, aren't as fine-tuned as a drummer who has been playing all their life. What personally drove me to the Paiste's was their nice smooth, controlled tail end. Some of the cheaper cymbals I remember auditioning had a sort of unpleasant warble during the trail end of the crash. I've been impressed with some of the Zidjian K series cymbals. Louder and slightly darker sound I think. I have K's on my hi hat.
The K series are pretty good for recording. Quiet though, which may be a good thing depending on the type of music. I talked to Craig Cambell about repairing one of mine. He's also going to thin out an old crash/ride I used to use for a crash in my old metal days.
|
krizrox
Max Output Level: -35 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4046
- Joined: 2003/11/23 09:49:33
- Location: Elgin, IL
- Status: offline
Re:Cracked cymbal
2010/03/19 02:23:58
(permalink)
mike_mccue
Zildjan A's all the way around.
Ya know... the Zildjian company doesn't put a name on a cymbal until it's nearly been finished and then a few guys in the test room decide what it is... and then they name it one of the pre established names that seems to describe it's response so customers can have some small chance of buying what they think they are buying.
So, the idea of placing a cymbal on a lathe and cutting the edge back a ways and then thinning it a bit isn't really a option if you like that cymbal the way it is.
It is going to come back a whole new cymbal... hmmm.
I'd be more comfortable sending that fella my brake drums.
I'd personally drill a stop hole and try to preserve the sound you purchased so many years ago.
best,
mike
Yeah I understand Mike. If I was a drummer, and this was like an heirloom setup that I was anal about, I'd consider other things before doing this too. This is a studio rig and really bought for clients to use. If the cymbal sound changes a bit, I'm fine with that. I'm more interested in keeping the thing from getting any worse for a while. One of my drummer friends said that hole drilling trick usually doesn't solve the problem long-term because the hole will eventually crack in an strange outward direction. So I don't know. It's just a cymbal. Easily replaced although I'd prefer to keep it around for a bit longer. When I get it back I'll let you all know what I think. I'll do a recording of it before and after so you can hear the change.
Larry Kriz www.LnLRecording.com www.myspace.com/lnlrecording Sonar PE 8.5, Samplitude Pro 11, Sonic Core Scope Professional/XTC, A16 Ultra AD/DA, Intel DG965RY MOBO, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz processor, XFX GeForce 7300 GT PCIe video card, Barracuda 750 & 320GB SATA drives, 4GB DDR Ram, Plextor DVD/CD-R burner.
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re:Cracked cymbal
2010/03/19 07:26:34
(permalink)
Kriz, as a metal enters the end of it's fatigue cycle life span... it's just as likely a new crack will appear just about anywhere. I've been playing with metal most of my life. :-) If you read between the lines of what that cymbal guy says... I think we agree. He just side steps it a bit by saying "no more likely" and "no less likely" to crack again. In the meantime there are a few choices to extend the life... I was just throwing out what I'd decide to do. From a practical standpoint... getting back to the thicker material will buy you more time because it hasn't flexed as much over it's lifetime and presumably still has some fatigue cycles left in it. What you say makes good sense. all the best, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2010/03/19 07:28:01
|
krizrox
Max Output Level: -35 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4046
- Joined: 2003/11/23 09:49:33
- Location: Elgin, IL
- Status: offline
Re:Cracked cymbal
2010/04/03 14:25:53
(permalink)
Just to let you know I got the cymbal back and this guy did a perfect job. The edge of the cymbal was ground down and buffed smooth. You can't tell anything was done to it. It sounds a little brighter than before but that was to be expected. I'll do a recording and compare before and after so you can hear. But the crack is gone. The cymbal looks as good as new. Still sounds good. And it only cost $20 (well, $40 if you count the round trip shipping cost). Definitely worth the money considering this was a $300 cymbal. I hope to get a lot more years service from this cymbal now. I highly recommend this guy's service. I'll post MP3's on my website sometime next week for you to hear.
Larry Kriz www.LnLRecording.com www.myspace.com/lnlrecording Sonar PE 8.5, Samplitude Pro 11, Sonic Core Scope Professional/XTC, A16 Ultra AD/DA, Intel DG965RY MOBO, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz processor, XFX GeForce 7300 GT PCIe video card, Barracuda 750 & 320GB SATA drives, 4GB DDR Ram, Plextor DVD/CD-R burner.
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re:Cracked cymbal
2010/04/03 19:11:56
(permalink)
yes, seems like good news... thanks for the update.
best,
mike
|