SpeakerFrog
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Creating a feedback loop/feeding a track back to itself
Hello everyone!
Is it possible to create a feedback loop in Sonar X1? I have not been able to do this in the previous versions and was wondering if they have changed this in X1.
Since there is no trial out yet, I thought I'd ask here.
The only DAW that I know of, that lets you send a tracks output back to itself is Ableton Live. Sonar does not let you do this, I even tried to do it via multiple busses. Example: bus1 -> bus2 -> bus3 -> and back to bus1. But it wont let me do it.
I have tried searching through the forums and google, but cant find any information on this regarding Sonar. I thought there might be an option for this kind of routing in the properties, but cant seem to find anything related.
So, is it possible? if not, then why? Analog boards can do this, and if atleast one developer(Ableton) has implemented this, then why the others would not?
And please let me know if you know of other DAWs that can do this.
I love sonar, and I would not want to switch DAWs just because of this one feature.
Thank you.
-Tuomas
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Beagle
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Re:Creating a feedback loop/feeding a track back to itself
2011/05/26 08:38:17
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you can do it with your soundcard (usually). most soundcards have a "what you hear" type option. in m-audio it's called "monitor mix" others call it different things, but the soundcard drivers/software allow this type of routing usually and so it's not necessary in the DAW itself. you'd just choose the appropriate input to the track from the soundcard drivers.
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Frank Haas
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Re:Creating a feedback loop/feeding a track back to itself
2011/05/26 08:45:47
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I'd really like to know why you'd want to create a feedback ?
I'd guess that with some patch-cabels, sonars "insert"-option, that you could actually create a feedback (greetings to your ears btw).
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SpeakerFrog
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Re:Creating a feedback loop/feeding a track back to itself
2011/05/26 09:23:42
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Thanks for your replies guys!
I was hoping it could be done inside the box. I'll have to look in to the soundcard option...thanks for this bit of info Beagle.
@Frank Haas. Hi, this technique is actually quite "normal" in dub reggae, where the signal of a delay unit is fed back to the same track and is usually manipulated or swept with EQ. I know that a digital feedback can be earwrecking compared to analog, but I've heard some nice results from people using ableton live.
I'll try to find an example from youtube etc.
Thanks!
-Tuomas
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JoshWolfer
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Re:Creating a feedback loop/feeding a track back to itself
2011/05/26 15:53:22
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I'd be interested in hearing what you're talking about. Sounds interesting and I've never heard of doing this before.
Josh Wolfer - Big Dumb Monkey Productions - www.bigdumbmonkey.com (Twitter @bigdumbmonkeyp) Sonar 8.5.3 / X1b :: 2.8 Ghz core i7 :: 8GB ram :: V-Studio 700 C+R :: Maudio Profire 2626 (ADAT lightpipe into Vstudio)
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RnRmaChine
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Re:Creating a feedback loop/feeding a track back to itself
2011/05/26 16:31:22
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You could do this no matter what sequencer you are using. If the sequencer will not let you choose the output as an input on the same track then just take a cable and run it out a dedicated channel on your interface. Output that track to THAT channel. Then take that cable and input it into that track's input. Now, make a new track that will carry that channels signal and have that track output to the proper master or subgroup in your sequencer. You will hear that obnoxious feedback loop just fine and be able to effect it in anyway you desire as if it was fed back internally. No different than re-amping a guitar or running out board gear EXCEPT you created a feedback loop by putting a cable on the in and out of the same channel. You better have your speakers turned down low. Or you could damage your hearing. Seriously... Good Luck, Rob Back to my mission of... should I upgrade to X1 PE from 8.5 PE ... /sigh
post edited by RnRmaChine - 2011/05/26 16:33:06
Sonar Platinum Windows 7 Pro 64bit Dual Processors - Intel Xeon X5670 - 6 cores/cpu = 12core w/Hyperthreading = 24core 24GB 10600 DDR3 1333 RAM 1110w PSU Geforce GTS 450 128GB SanDisk SSD OS/C:drive WD Blue HDrives Sample, Audio, Storage.
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SpeakerFrog
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Re:Creating a feedback loop/feeding a track back to itself
2011/05/27 02:35:10
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Hi, I know this sounds like a stupid thing to do intentionally, but I'm not trying to make those horrible noises you get when you stick a mic infront of a speaker for example. When using this technique, you must be carefull and control the feedback with the send levels. You only send little bit of the original signal to the delay unit, then mute it. Here is a SOS article that touches the subject. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul07/articles/dubmixing.htm I could not find an example of this done on analog gear, but then I remembered this video of Pitch Black. They use Ableton Live, and you can hear it done somewhere on the second half of this clip. (sorry no sound on my work computer) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1siG6_Pd-Mg Thanks -Tuomas
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SteveGriffiths
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Re:Creating a feedback loop/feeding a track back to itself
2011/05/27 03:34:24
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I like to be able to regenerate fx returns - for example tape delays - the feed back control is then relocated to the console and not the unit in a rack somewhere. By routine the return from a delay to a pitch changer, and resend the pitch change output back to the delay, you can create a glissando effect. Digital hardware on firewire buses seems to have the same limitation (though physically patching returns to inputs gets past it). With a Presonus SL16 not only can you not record the firewire channel returns, those returns do not turn up in the FW main outs, even though the signal does appear at analogue main outs. Shame really - analogue engineers have always been allowed to shoot ourselves in the foot.
Cheers..Grif
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Beagle
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Re:Creating a feedback loop/feeding a track back to itself
2011/05/27 07:47:18
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SteveGriffiths
I like to be able to regenerate fx returns - for example tape delays - the feed back control is then relocated to the console and not the unit in a rack somewhere. By routine the return from a delay to a pitch changer, and resend the pitch change output back to the delay, you can create a glissando effect. Digital hardware on firewire buses seems to have the same limitation (though physically patching returns to inputs gets past it). With a Presonus SL16 not only can you not record the firewire channel returns, those returns do not turn up in the FW main outs, even though the signal does appear at analogue main outs. Shame really - analogue engineers have always been allowed to shoot ourselves in the foot.
Cheers..Grif
I wonder if that's true for all firewire devices? I know that my MOTU doesn't do that and I wondered why. this is the first firewire device I've ever had.
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