Creating tape style speed up/slow down (include the pitch warping) in X3?

this may help http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3020677
 
I know how much you like 3rd party plug-ins. Here is an antique 32bit plug-in that I used for a long time and still have installed. The Tapestop 1-7.zip is just a dll and a very necessary readme. http://hem.bredband.net/tbtaudio/archive/oldtbtvstplugins.htm
 

Forget about TapeStop. It has a bug that makes automating it impossible.
 
The easiest way is to bounce the mix out and do the edit on the mix file. Sound Forge can whip this up quick and easy, I think you can also do this in Reaper by automating the master playback rate.
 
A month or two ago Craig Anderton had a Sound on Sound article on how to fake varispeed treatments in SONAR that I also seem to recall mentioned this in some way. 

...wicked
Forget about TapeStop. It has a bug that makes automating it impossible.
 
The easiest way is to bounce the mix out and do the edit on the mix file. Sound Forge can whip this up quick and easy, I think you can also do this in Reaper by automating the master playback rate.
 
A month or two ago Craig Anderton had a Sound on Sound article on how to fake varispeed treatments in SONAR that I also seem to recall mentioned this in some way. 

Thanks. I was hoping to keep this within Sonar but I have been eyeballing either/or of those programs to solve some potential limitations. I guess this is one of those things that becomes difficult due to the nature of 1's and 0's as opposed to physical media.
 
Cheers.

Does the Tone2 bifilter do any pitch type stuff? Maybe automating that with a tempo map/groove clip + render could emulate a good result.
 
Just brainstorming. I really gotta try that thing out. I keep forgetting it's there.

Yeah, I figured it wouldn't but the demos show some crazy stuff that almost seemed like it might twist pitch. Just a hopeful shot in the dark because it looks really easy to automate. It could be a cool extra layer of effect to this type of speed/pitch shifting though. Imagine a speed up/slow being incrementally mangled with some of what that effect supposedly does.
 
Damn I need to get back to creating and trying stuff. Stupid, boring life stuff. Ugh.

Are you doing a full "spin down" or "spin up" effect? Or are you just wanting to alter the playback rate to a different rate?
 
If it's the latter, I'd suggest Reaper. Srsly it's the only reason I keep it around. Separate playback rates for the master AND for each clip. It's pretty good at that.
 
If you're doing a full-stop type effect, then try the DimPro recipe. You'd probably have to do a hard edit on it at some point but at least doing the DimPro method gives you maximum flexibility to the final stage.
 
Interesting notes about TapeStop. I haven't used it in a billion years because of the automation bug. Maybe they posted a new version.
 
You could also try Glitch. It has a spin down process in it. It's a way bigger plug than just that, and it requires a few tweaks to get it working (because it's a plugin and you need to configure it as a synth to get it working IIRC)

...wicked
Are you doing a full "spin down" or "spin up" effect? Or are you just wanting to alter the playback rate to a different rate?
 
If it's the latter, I'd suggest Reaper. Srsly it's the only reason I keep it around. Separate playback rates for the master AND for each clip. It's pretty good at that.
 
If you're doing a full-stop type effect, then try the DimPro recipe. You'd probably have to do a hard edit on it at some point but at least doing the DimPro method gives you maximum flexibility to the final stage.
 
Interesting notes about TapeStop. I haven't used it in a billion years because of the automation bug. Maybe they posted a new version.
 
You could also try Glitch. It has a spin down process in it. It's a way bigger plug than just that, and it requires a few tweaks to get it working (because it's a plugin and you need to configure it as a synth to get it working IIRC)

Well I'm more or less just looking to have creative options for either or and wasn't really sure where to start so figured I'd ask. As always I'm getting some good suggestions to at least wrap my head around the concept and most importantly learning appropriate terms so I can research this stuff independently.
 
For example: When you say "separate playback rates for the master and each clip" I'm guessing this means that each item being played back is playing at a steady tempo/rate but at a tempo/rate that is potentially different but independent of the mian output or other tracks (and you said clips so maybe even within a track but for separate clips within said track). That is useful, gives me ideas and is indeed part of what I was looking to learn about.
 
When you and others say things like "spin up/down", "varispeed" and "TapeStop" (the last of which seems to be a plug but also possibly a description of the effect of a tape shuttle resolving to a complete stop) I'm assuming that means more of what I was looking for (like the effect at the end of War Pigs).
 
Ideally I just want an easy way to manipulate and mangle audio like one could with a hardware transport panel and a tape machine feeding into another tape machine (or other capture equipment so the speed/pitch change is captured/printed for its own playback). It'd be even more ideal if this could happen by drawing automation for individual tracks or busses and even MORE ideal if there were a way to make the tempo map in Sonar follow along so then MIDI tracks would follow (the last bit isn't as important but man would that be cool).
 
So yeah... perhaps a tall order but the DimPro solution will probably do most of the work in a pinch and I'll look into the other plugs/DAWs (I am eventually going to be buying Reaper for my laptop anyway because Sonar is too much for it to handle methinks).
 
More of a puzzle to be sorted though and this one had been brewing in the back of my mind for a while. I just figured maybe there was some tool I was overlooking but I guess this is just one of those things that gets weird when dealing with digital tracks as opposed to tape.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. Cheers.

Sanderxpander
I use Waves Soundshifter but I think it only comes with the larger bundles, they're generally pretty expensive for single plugs.

Noted. Perhaps there's a tool crammed in with one the Izotope packages I've been eyeballing but have been needing less and less for various reasons. The inclusion of Melodyne in X3 made the urgency of an Izotope package much less urgent. I had been getting itchy for Nectar as pitch correcting solution but the money can go elsewhere for now.
 
I've also watched some vids on VVocal recently. It seems to do some pretty nutty stuff that I don't think Melodyne can. I think I'm still able to use it in X3 (because I still have X2/1 installed). Maybe there is a passable fakeout solution there as well.
 
Cheers.

Yeah I probably wouldn't have bought it for 150 just for the odd chance I'd need it. I steadily upgraded from Renaissance Maxx via Diamond to Horizon. At some point it was just included. They really have a lot of cool "utility fx".

Beepster
Now I'm wondering (and again this is merely out of curiosity) if there is some magic equation that relates to tape speed and pitch...

Just a simple linear relationship. For example an increase in speed of 10% corresponds to an increase in pitch of 10%. No magic involved.
 

Anderton
You don't need Sound Forge or Reaper. Like true analog  tape variable speed, speeding up shortens duration and raises pitch, while slowing down lengthens duration and lowers pitch and Sonar can do this. The most common variable speed tape effect I did by far was speeding up the final mix by 1 or 2%, which of course also raised pitch by 1 or 2%. This technique easily accomplishes this function, as well as the "Chipmunk effect" and a bunch of other cool stuff.

The speed change can be up to four times faster or slower, and you will not hear digital artifacts. In other words, it’s just like using tape except that with this technique, the speed change is not continuously variable. The thread referenced by scook has that and other "varispeed" techniques.

1. Open the clip in the Loop Construction window.
2. From the Clip drop-down menu, enable Stretch On/Off.
3. Move the Threshold slider all the way to the left (0%) so all the markers disappear. This is very important.
4. The two right-most fields adjust semitones and cents respectively. Do not enable the Pitch button! That will just confuse things. Cents will adjust +/-49 cents which should be enough. If not, for example if you need to make the pitch 70 cents sharp, set semitones to 1 and cents to -30. (For Chipmunk effects, set semitones to +12 .)
5. Render the clip, and it will reflect the pitch/speed changes you made.

Cool. I haven't played with the loop construction thingie yet but I'll check it out. Honestly I was starting to get the impression that it was an outdated way of doing things from the way people talk abotu it but this is a good excuse to see for myself. I also just remembered why this is on my mind. there is a weird breakdown in my current project that I'd like to try some time/pitch warping at.
 
Any chance that tempo changes done in the LC can be made to alter the tempo map of the project? I'm guessing there is because from what I know of the LC it's suited for beat matching and what not.
 
Either way... thanks. And thanks to everyone. A plethora of ideas leads to a plethora of options. Cheers.

Sanderxpander
I would say the main downside of this approach is not being able to incorporate actual speed increases or decreases, or really any kind of variable effect at all, unless I'm misunderstanding.

You understand correctly, it's not possible with the loop construction window approach (at least that I've found). If I need continuous pitch shifting for something like sound design, I'll load a sound or track into Dimension Pro and vary the pitch bend. That technique is also covered in the thread referenced by scook.

Sanderxpander
I would say the main downside of this approach is not being able to incorporate actual speed increases or decreases, or really any kind of variable effect at all, unless I'm misunderstanding.

I think I've seen gradually speed changes done with it in some of the vids (perhaps in one of Craig's). I really do have to take a closer look at the LC sooner than later. My current project is supposed to be all about explore the more advanced topics and odder tools in Sonar (as well as test out various configs of my external equipment for the optimum input and... well to fully learn how some of that crap works too) so I think I'd better find a good spot to get the LC in there somewhere.
 
So far I've really nailed down the basic principles (and honed me playing of) my padKontroller, learned how to use AD2, got better at working in the PRV, hooked up my Line6, tweaked it out for bass and learned how to reliably save presets on it, got a handle on the new comping mode, messed around with some of the newer effects, worked out some better methods for writing/tracking/archiving, got better at handling system resources and just general got to know my way around all the menus and shorcuts better.
 
What I need to do now is hook up my mixer, see if I can get my darned DX-7 working as a controller, test all my mics for different applications to see what will work best, test about a hundred input variations for my guitar tracks, learn the Matrix View, learn more about all the various synths, learn how to sample properly, learn how to use automation lanes effectively, set up FX chain modules and track templates, figure out a good way to capture sound from other sources like the net or off old tapes and stuff, etc, etc... and I guess now try out the Loop Constructor.
 
Then take another crack at mixing. So I've got a lot on my mind. lol