Helpful ReplyCrooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...?

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user390096
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2016/02/19 22:54:59 (permalink)

Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...?

Hi,
 
Does anyone know how to use Sonar to get that classic old reverb they used in the crooner days? I try but don't come close.
 
Thanx, FW
post edited by user390096 - 2016/02/19 23:09:33
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John
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/20 01:00:12 (permalink)
The people you list in my understanding used the room they were in to have reverb. The studios in some cases had their own sound. However, spring and plate reverbs were in use for at least part of the time many of the recordings were made. A very light delay also can be used.
 
In truth a book or article that goes into the techniques and equipment used in those days might be very helpful.  I would keep is as simple as you can.   

Best
John
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rabeach
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/20 03:18:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby seriousfun 2016/02/21 20:54:24
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wst3
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/20 09:20:36 (permalink)
Can't speak to all of them, but I can tell you that a big part of the Sinatra sound was the infamous chamber that they used. Nothing sounds like a chamber!

I've only worked in a couple of studios that had chambers, but they were always used!

The rooms in which the recordings were made also add a lot, but I'm pretty sure the part that makes you smile is the chamber.

-- Bill
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user390096
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/20 10:38:10 (permalink)
so you're saying I need to build an underground cavern...hmm....
 
I'm trying out the Waves H-Reverb and it sounds pretty nice and I put a question into them asking if they had a "crooner" preset - still no response but it's only been a few hours.
 
Thanx to all for the info and the links to the story.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/20 10:50:17 (permalink)
If you have a Waves collection check out IR-L (or IR-1), they have a bunch of rooms and famous studios you could try as a starting point. 
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digimidi
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/20 12:36:53 (permalink)
Ditto on Sanderxpander's recommendation: I just picked up the Waves IR-1 on sale for $29.  With it, you can download for free 4 GB of impulses from lots of different spaces.  Worth checking out!

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TheMaartian
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/20 14:20:09 (permalink)
For chamber reverbs, try the following:
 
1) I assume I have a version of SONAR that includes ReMatrix Solo. If not, never mind.
 
2) Read the info box (Impulse Management) at the end of this Craig Anderton article in Sound On Sound: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun15/articles/sonar-0615.htm
 
3) Download Samplicity's Bricasti M7 impulse library (donation ware; includes a bunch of chamber IRs): http://www.samplicity.com/bricasti-m7-impulse-responses/
 
4) Let us know how this all turns out for you.
 
I got to hear Frank live once in a club where Rush St. ends in State St. (it's Gibson's Steakhouse now) in Chicago. Very cool. But nowhere near the quality of his recordings. He was a master. Always such great arrangements behind him. I've got his early teenage stuff with Tommy Dorsey, his a cappella work recorded during WWII. But his best work was from 1950 to 1970 or so, when he started making movies. I have pretty much everything up to that point...and nothing after.
 
One of the best all time.
post edited by TheMaartian - 2016/02/20 14:34:42

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mixmkr
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/20 20:28:07 (permalink)
I agree with a conv reverb and some judicious use of EQ on it as well, until it starts to get close...  then trim to taste.  Lots of studios had nice reverb rooms, but although they sounded good, they may have had anything but flat responses coming out of them (except the verb, of course).  IOW, no low end and probably fairly midrangy as well.

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tenfoot
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/20 20:57:59 (permalink)
Sanderxpander
If you have a Waves collection check out IR-L (or IR-1), they have a bunch of rooms and famous studios you could try as a starting point. 


+1 for Sanderexpanders idea.  This would be a good starting point. 

Bruce.
 
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LunaTech
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/21 17:50:38 (permalink)
Hello,
 
If you are using Platinum or equivalent, Each of these plugin's have "Chamber" settings. Blue Verb from Nomad, Perfect Spaces older, Sonar Breverb and Solo Rematrix. This may narrow down a place to start reviewing straight from the program. IHTH..

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jimkleban
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/21 19:39:57 (permalink)
I know that the OP was asking about SONAR but....
 
Sinatra did quite a few recordings in the United studios in California.... which I think was converted over the years as Ocean Way Studios (Bill Putnam's old studio).  Anyway, UAD has a plugin called OCEAN WAY STUDIOS which is a multi sampled IR effect done in different Ocean Way rooms with all types of vintage mics. Frank always sung with the band LIVE as you probably know so this approach has some logic to it.
 
If I was going for that Sinatra sounds for vocals, I would probably try this one first with a 47 or 67 mic (you get both the sound of the room with different mics).
 
Obviously, you can use UAD plugins in SONAR.
 
Jim

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pharohoknaughty
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/21 21:49:38 (permalink)
Thanks for drawing my attention to this.
 
I went back and listened to some Sinatra and found All or Nothing at All (from Sinatra and Strings, 1961/1962, be careful he recorded it many times).
 
There is a buildup of strings at the beginning and then they stop, revealing the deep reverb from the session. Worth listening to just to hear the reverb.
 
My feeling is they (the whole production team) really learned how to work with what they had. The arrangement, the musicians, the room, the equipment, etc.   The equipment was simple but the usage was maximized.
 
 
post edited by pharohoknaughty - 2016/02/21 22:05:16

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user390096
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/22 00:15:15 (permalink)
I found ReMatrix Solo and gave it a try and WOW, there is a pre-set called "Vintage" that is pretty close - lots of immediate mid-rangy reverb! I'll keep fooling around with it but it's pretty nice as-is. It took me a while to find ReMatrix as SONAR likes to give you more choices than you'll ever need.
 
Thanx to all for the help and especially to TheMaartian for the Solo tip.
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Pan65
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/22 03:49:59 (permalink)
jepp, a convolution reverb is the ansver. ReMatrix does this pretty well by using the charcter of a real room. I don't remember exactly how it works but I think you send out a sound in the room and record what's bounce back (pink noise I think), ReMatrix can then use this information to modulate any signal you feed it. Pretty amazing if you ask me :)
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/22 04:14:24 (permalink)
Glad you found something that works!  I totally forgot about ReMatrix to be honest. I saw you used H-Reverb so thought you might have a larger Waves collection with IR-L/1.
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user390096
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/22 10:48:08 (permalink)
Actually, I own the Waves IR-L/1 and the whole "Gold" suite but never even tried it before. I usually used "RVerb" which works well for most things as well as my Izotope 2. I think I can hold on to my $300 as the built-in FX seem about as nice as H-Reverb.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/22 12:35:48 (permalink)
Ah well many people don't realize IR-L comes with multiple GBs of impulses that you need to download separately. The default menu is like 6 general items. If you haven't installed them, definitely do, they're super useful. 
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jimkleban
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/22 13:24:14 (permalink)
Of course if you need the ultimate in IR engines (I know this is subjective), ALTIVERB 7 is pretty hard to beat.  The IR library is second to none, with all kinda of real spaces sampled and are included (as are all the new IRs they release).  But, it may be overkill and it isn't cheap but I think it is amazing. Even has a graphic mode to place the source closer or further from the recording mic.  This product is also highly used in cinematic productions to simulate real space for foley artists.
 
Just added some info,
Jim

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Sanderxpander
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Re: Crooner Reverb like Sinatra, Martin, Nat King Cole, etc...? 2016/02/22 14:00:43 (permalink)
I lust for Altiverb, I've worked with it in a few studios. But yeah, it's expensive. And I honestly haven't had a situation that I really really couldn't do with something else. 
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