Crossfade POST FX bin

Author
chriswickens
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18
  • Joined: 2014/12/25 09:51:58
  • Status: offline
2017/04/22 17:52:11 (permalink)

Crossfade POST FX bin

How do I set my crossfades to occur POST FX bin?
 
They are currently pre FX bin which means all my dry guitars are faded before they hit the amp sim and it just dials down the gain.
#1

7 Replies Related Threads

    Beepster
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 18001
    • Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
    • Status: offline
    Re: Crossfade POST FX bin 2017/04/22 18:16:21 (permalink)
    You can't AFAIK. You would have to bounce/render the effects right onto the clips (before making your x-fades) then create your fades on the new clips.
     
    But... I have never ever had to do this. I know what you are thinking but an X-Fade should not be causing any decrease in signal feeding the sim. X-fades, in theory, result in a smooth/even transition between clips without any volume reduction.
     
    Now Fade Ins and Fade Outs are another matter. That WILL reduce the input level going into your sim which can be undesirable (less input signal means the sim/amp isn't being driven in the same way so the distortion might get stoopid or tone gets lost or, or, or...).
     
    In THOSE cases you can solve this by
     
    a) bouncing the effects directly to the clips as previously suggested or
     
    b) using post effect level automation (like the track fader*) to create the fades instead of the fade handles on the clips. This is likely the better option and keeps full input signal going to the amp sim (so there is no change in input level going to the amp sim therefore there is no change in the ouput of the sim).
     
    *I prefer to put a Prochannel module at the very end of the signal chain right before the track fader and use that for the Volume automation. A blank/empty FX Chain Module** works great for this purpose. You create and insert the blank FX Chain Module (which will not have any effect on the sound of the track). Then you automate the Output level fader of the module thus keeping your Track Fader free from being overtaken by automation (so you can still use it as an overall track volume control).
     
    Cheers.
     
    **Credit for the PC module automation trick goes to Craig Anderton (from his "Advanced" video series) and credit for the FX Chain module variation of the trick goes to scook. Craig showed it using the Tube PC Module but I think the vid predated the introduction of PC FX Chain modules. scook suggested an empty PC FX Chain here on the forum. Just had to give props where props were due. Extremely useful technique.
    #2
    Kev999
    Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3922
    • Joined: 2007/05/01 14:22:54
    • Location: Victoria, Australia
    • Status: offline
    Re: Crossfade POST FX bin 2017/04/23 01:11:59 (permalink)
    You could try putting the fx in the clips instead of the track.

    SonarPlatinum(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)
    FractalDesign:DefineR5|i7-6850k@4.1GHz|16GB@2666MHz-DDR4|MSI:GamingProCarbonX99a|Matrox:M9148(x2)|UAD2solo(6.5.2)|W7Ult-x64-SP1
    Audient:iD22+ASP800|KRK:VXT6|+various-outboard-gear|+guitars&basses, etc.
    Having fun at work lately
    #3
    Beepster
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 18001
    • Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
    • Status: offline
    Re: Crossfade POST FX bin 2017/04/23 01:24:42 (permalink)
    Kev999
    You could try putting the fx in the clips instead of the track.




    It would produce the same result unless bounced because the signal flow in that scenario is Clip (raw audio) > Clip FX Bin.
     
    So the level changes (fades) would still occur before the amp sim (in the clip FX bin).
     
    Edit: Unless I am mistaken about the position of the Clip fade vs. Clip FX Bin in the signal chain. I've always assumed that the fade handles (and their volume level effect) occurs before the Clip FX Bin. If not then yes... that would indeed work BUT then you would need to insert the amp sim on every clip in the track... which is probably not a great approach to things.
     
    Also..  hello Kev. ;-)
    #4
    Kev999
    Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3922
    • Joined: 2007/05/01 14:22:54
    • Location: Victoria, Australia
    • Status: offline
    Re: Crossfade POST FX bin 2017/04/23 03:12:59 (permalink)
    Beepster
    Kev999
    You could try putting the fx in the clips instead of the track.

    It would produce the same result unless bounced because the signal flow in that scenario is Clip (raw audio) > Clip FX Bin.
    So the level changes (fades) would still occur before the amp sim (in the clip FX bin).

     
    I'm not sure about that. But if so, then use clip envelopes for the fades instead of the existing crossfades.

    SonarPlatinum(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)
    FractalDesign:DefineR5|i7-6850k@4.1GHz|16GB@2666MHz-DDR4|MSI:GamingProCarbonX99a|Matrox:M9148(x2)|UAD2solo(6.5.2)|W7Ult-x64-SP1
    Audient:iD22+ASP800|KRK:VXT6|+various-outboard-gear|+guitars&basses, etc.
    Having fun at work lately
    #5
    timidi
    Max Output Level: -21 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5449
    • Joined: 2006/04/11 12:55:15
    • Location: SE Florida
    • Status: offline
    Re: Crossfade POST FX bin 2017/04/23 16:00:41 (permalink)
    Kev999
    Beepster
    Kev999
    You could try putting the fx in the clips instead of the track.

    It would produce the same result unless bounced because the signal flow in that scenario is Clip (raw audio) > Clip FX Bin.
    So the level changes (fades) would still occur before the amp sim (in the clip FX bin).

     
    I'm not sure about that. But if so, then use clip envelopes for the fades instead of the existing crossfades.



    If your referring to clip gain envelopes ("clip envelopes") I think the same problem would exist as the gain would be reduced pre amp sim.
     
    I've gotten around this sometimes by using a plugin after the amp sim (end of chain). Any plug with a volume slider/knob will do. Automate the volume slider/knob.
     
    Same problem with gain envelopes and compressors as the compressor will react differently after clip gain alterations.
     
     

    ASUS P8P67, i7-2600K, CORSAIR 16GB, HIS 5450, 3 Samsung SSD 850, Win7 64, RME AIO.
     
    https://timbowman.bandcamp.com/releases
     
    #6
    Beepster
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 18001
    • Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
    • Status: offline
    Re: Crossfade POST FX bin 2017/04/23 16:32:00 (permalink)
    Yeah. Clip Gain envelopes are pre Clip FX Bin as well (AFAIK) so that wouldn't work either.
     
    Besides, as timidi alluded to, there may be other input sensitive plugins further down the chain (Prochannel, Track FX Bin, etc) such as compressors. So even if you could control the amp sim level in the way desired at the very start of the chain I don't see any benefit (and lots of possible problems) of doing such automation so early in the signal path.
     
    This is indeed a subject that took a lot of brain racking to figure out as a beginner. It's important to know exactly WHAT happens and when in the chain to make an accurate plan. I've been pushing the "At the end of the chain" option but for other purposes I may want my level automation elsewhere. A pretty obvious one would be Clip Gain automation to cut out "silence" or to even out a wild track like say a vocalist with poor mic control or a drummer who can't keep their strikes even. Going in and using Clip Gain Automation to manage those spikes and cut out silence/room noise makes sense so the audio is hitting any effects more evenly (which is particularly desirable for compression purposes).
     
    However all this may be moot (but hopefully still useful info) since the OP was asking about X-Fades which, without more info, I can't make sense of. As noted an X-Fade should not, itself, be causing any significant gain reduction. If that IS happening then OP needs to provide more details... because that ain't right.
     
    Cheeeers!
    #7
    Kev999
    Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3922
    • Joined: 2007/05/01 14:22:54
    • Location: Victoria, Australia
    • Status: offline
    Re: Crossfade POST FX bin 2017/04/23 20:02:04 (permalink)
    Beepster
    However all this may be moot (but hopefully still useful info) since the OP was asking about X-Fades which, without more info, I can't make sense of. As noted an X-Fade should not, itself, be causing any significant gain reduction. If that IS happening then OP needs to provide more details...

     
    You're right. There's likely to be a better way to achieve his aim. But since we don't know what that is, we can't advise.

    SonarPlatinum(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)
    FractalDesign:DefineR5|i7-6850k@4.1GHz|16GB@2666MHz-DDR4|MSI:GamingProCarbonX99a|Matrox:M9148(x2)|UAD2solo(6.5.2)|W7Ult-x64-SP1
    Audient:iD22+ASP800|KRK:VXT6|+various-outboard-gear|+guitars&basses, etc.
    Having fun at work lately
    #8
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1