Helpful ReplyCrystal Ball

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JohnKenn
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2017/01/02 20:31:27 (permalink)

Crystal Ball

Hypothetical question about software and what is up ahead. Just conjecture on any of our parts, but a lot of good minds around here that may have a vague vision of the future to share.
 
My 12 year old grandson wants to be some kind of engineer when he comes into his own. He heard me swearing at the computer, forkin’ this and forkin’ that about a Pace protection dead end (more about Pace than the plugin itself). He said when he gets to be an engineer, he will take care of me and make any software I want.
 
Then he asked me what software I would want if I could have anything. Jeez, loaded question. Another clone compressor maybe. Better stereo chorus and flange definitely. But he got me thinking outside of the box for awhile before settling back into ignorance.
 
What I can envision is an involvement of all the senses. All five of them since the majority of us haven’t practiced enough yoga to get 6 and up.  5 will do for a few thousand years more till all they have is fossil debris to prove that we ever existed.
 
Music experience will be sitting in front of some box that transmits visual holograms with multi dimensional surround sound. Taste, touch, smell will be part of the future generation DVD’s.
 
Can see this at first being a helmet augmented by surface electrodes, having to RTFM to get them in approximately the right place.
 
Next revisions will be laser or whatever triangulated beams to stimulate specific sites in the brain without the need for surface electrodes. Automated programs will find an area based on biological subtleties needing the shock without damaging everything it needs to pass through.
 
Think we will get to this, and maybe sooner than we realize. Wonder however what reprogramming viruses and Trojans will be installed. Scary thought…
 
Is there any effect or capability we can’t go to Waves and download. We got compressors, delay, reverb, flange, phase, chorus, EQ, distortion and cab sims, arps for keyboards. May have forgotten a couple, but this can’t be the limit of our expression. Is there an effect needed that we do not have yet.
 
Don’t have a coupon code for the future, but you guys got any ideas or inspirations?  Will pass your thoughts on to my grandson for future development. He did say that he will take care of all you guys (and girls) as well. He has some neat ideas about how to make money otherwise, so said all of his music innovations will be for free. He has to support the struggling artist.
 
John
#1
bapu
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/02 20:37:05 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby cclarry 2017/01/02 21:06:45
Most people (in the SONAR forum) just want Staff View to work correctly.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
I slay me.
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JohnKenn
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/02 21:33:13 (permalink)
Yeah brother, it's where we are at now in the present. Fully agree.
 
Perfect world ahead in attempt, though the ancient heathens said we will never get perfect. Joy in the struggle is trying to get to a place we will never get to. Question was assuming that up the line in the short term, we will see 99.999 percent perfection in the DAW of choice, more emerging players on the field than we can keep track of, but all of them almost perfect. All bugs of any worth worked out. Our current struggles, frustrations will be a humorous artifact of the past.
 
Best Buy has a cheap consumer PC with a generic OEM program that blows Sonar, Reaper as we know the programs off the map. Sound card has more multi channel channels than we can ever use. Quality beyond anything we can hear. Specs. if there is any competition, on paper only.
 
So was just wondering, what's next...
 
John
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Fleer
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/02 23:11:24 (permalink)
I believe your grandson should focus on the software side of music creation as well as music transfer or conveyance, the way music could be played without speakers. Forward to the past and back to the future, if you will. I would buy those apps, even when they're free.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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JohnKenn
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/03 11:38:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bapu 2017/01/03 11:53:27
Exactly, the idea of a brain resonator field that excites the auditory surface of the brain downstream from the ears without requiring the ears to hear.  I'm convinced this is where it is headed though I won't be around to see it. All entertainment media will eventually be delivered like an internal Star Trek hollow deck experience.
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eph221
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/03 14:12:53 (permalink)
I'm with Bapu!  let us old (educated) fogey's use staff to compose.  BTW did you know they don't even teach cursive writing in amerikan elementary skools?  I'm aghast!

*Q-TIPS ARE FUZZY!!*
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Fleer
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/03 14:30:32 (permalink)
You look aghast!

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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yorolpal
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/03 14:58:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby BobF 2017/01/04 08:48:29
Maybe your grandson could concentrate on ways of teaching people how to actually do things and learn things and understand things instead of how not to do, learn and understand anything.  Most every new app I see come down the pike just does or learns or understands for us reducing us back to our primate days just dragging (and dropping), pushing (buttons) or grunting (in approval when we the app meets our so-called needs.
 

https://soundcloud.com/doghouse-riley/tracks 
https://doghouseriley1.bandcamp.com 
Where you come from is gone...where you thought you were goin to weren't never there...and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it.
 
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JohnKenn
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/03 16:14:21 (permalink)
Yeah, but it looks like for at least for the forseeable, this is where we are headed. Won't be long before we won't be able to flush a toilet without an ap. Until some major backlash, we are losing control over everything.
 
Back in the late 1960's, schools outlawed the new fangled calculator (not pocket calculator because some of the first ones were as big as a typewriter)
 
Rationale was that these devices would lead to a generation of vegetables that couldn't use a slide rule.
 
They did improve everything and the slide rule faded to where it needed to fade to, but put a major knockout on sudent's math skills. Push a button and leave your brain on the beach. Makes life easier at the expense of making us weaker. Not against new technology, but concerned about not getting it balanced.
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bapu
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/03 17:38:50 (permalink)
There are calculators?
 
Man, the world moves too fast for me.
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smallstonefan
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/03 18:35:55 (permalink)
I got my first taste of virtual reality this Christmas when my family got me a Samsung Gear VR. WOW. VR is going to change the world - for better and for worse. Without me getting on my soapbox about the end of an era, let me tell you one cool thing I liked that I would like to see in a VR app.
 
I downloaded a Joan Jett app that lets you download like 5 songs from a concert. The 3rd VR camera is set up on stage right next to her. You can look at her as though you were standing next to hear, and just watch exactly what she plays on guitar - very cool. But then look out at the audience and WOW that is cool. I want to learn a few of her songs just so I can pretend the audience is listening to me when I play. And THAT's the app I want. A virtual audience that will react appropriately to my guitar wankings. To be virtually on a big stage and people rocking out to my playing in real-time.
 
sign me up.
 
And I don't want any of those bored people that are there just for the headliner and don't deserve their up-front tickets either! :)
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Fleer
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/03 19:11:10 (permalink)
Problem is that every single audience member will also be wearing those VR glasses while looking at you, but seeing Bowie or Presley. Interesting philosophical conundrum.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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bapu
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/03 19:16:21 (permalink)
Not me. I'm going to write the app. I'll enjoy the app more than any of the users.
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Fleer
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/03 19:20:30 (permalink)
There's a virtual writing app for that.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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smallstonefan
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/03 19:44:39 (permalink)
Fleer
Problem is that every single audience member will also be wearing those VR glasses while looking at you, but seeing Bowie or Presley. Interesting philosophical conundrum.



Nope - that audience will be virtually simulated. :)
 
I can see the options screen now:
 
1. Audience has camera phones yes/no
2. Allow camera phones as lighters for ballads yes/no
3. Allow audience members to have caps on their water bottles yes/no
4. Realistic bored young dates of wealthy guys in the front row yes/no
5. List bands that you want to see on concert tee shirts of audience members ___________
6. List bands that you DO NOT want to see on concert tee shirts of audience members (blank will assume you meant Justin Beiber)
7. Average age of audience members ___
8. Crowd surfing yes/no
9. % of crowd on psychedelics ___
10. % chance someone will yell "freebird!" ___
 
 
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JohnKenn
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/03 20:37:20 (permalink)
Thinking back on some of the impacts of technology on music, pre and post tape era. Advances open new doors for expression, but not without drawbacks. Advances going forward will overall benefit since evolution is the Law, but some collateral damage is part of the equation.
 
Some may remember the advent of MIDI and the war with Roland to get their DCB language accepted. Same cocky battle Protools did with RTAS.  Protools flipped off vst format and stuck with RTAS since they were Protools, ruled he universe and only RTAS will prevail. Went to hell in a handbasket when the musical world called their bluff and Steinberg’s vst format took front stage.
 
Roland did the same thing and banked on DCB to wipe out MIDI. Synths like the Juno 6 were outfitted with DCB announcing the death of MIDI. Bad call. MIDI took front stage and it must have been a bitter pill for Roland to have to sell hardware to convert DCB to MIDI. I have one of the old bugged conversion boxes.
 
MIDI blew everyone away. Crap, you didn’t even have to play anything right or at full speed. Make a mistake, correct it. Can’t figure out a note, go smoke a joint and figure it out later. Then the arp…
 
Read an article that the full blown acceptance of MIDI was carved in stone with the Michael Jackson Thriller tour. Seems the keyboard players showed up with hangovers and couldn’t play anything right. They had dumped such a budget into the tour that everything had to be as close to perfect as possible, or at least controlled. They did all the keyboard tracks in MIDI and then just had to dress up the players, put them behind the keyboards and let them dance around pretending to play. Computer doing everything behind the scenes.
 
Some may remember also the contest on the 40’th anniversary of the Sgt Pepper’s album. Can’t remember who got involved, but some professional heavy weights. Task was to recreate the album with one catch. They had to use only the equipment available at the time, tape 4 track and a couple floor stomps.
 
One group eventually did it after multiple failures, and everyone else tanked.
 
Retrospect analysis was that we became too soft in our reliance on technology to replace a lack of ability. The old school musicians had to have their focus and skills in order to do a complete track once through. 21st century dudes are used to screwing up after a couple measures and going back to correct notes and errors. Can slop through a 3 minute track and go back to surgically repair the carnage. Hit a sour note, replace it. Sing off key, pitch correct it.
 
Not ****ing about the good old days, just an observance of the give and take payoffs. Seems like we go two steps forward and create a step backward.
 
Emailed all your respected advice to my grandson, and he sends his thanks. Says however I didn’t get his message straight. He was going over effects. Flange, phase, comp, EQ and the rest of the traditionals. He was asking if there is an effect or effects that were missing that he could invent and program for us. Avant concepts. May take a few years, but he is taking requests.
 
John
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Fleer
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/03 20:55:45 (permalink)
Any affective effect will do. Call it the Affector.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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JohnKenn
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/04 19:27:18 (permalink)
Okay Fleer, the kid is calling you on this one. Wants to know what an affective effect is. He is okay with the Affector name and assumes it will be an audio plugin. He said he is still within, though transitioning out of the phase of requiring adult guidance, and needs seasoned advice "from old people". Still wanting to know what is missing in the vst arsenal. Cool perspective the more I think about it. And the approach out of the mouth of babes.
 
Was visiting with his Mom for a few days and observing me use my best 4 letter vocabulary struggling with a compressor. I was asked what are the effects that were making me so mad and we had a good run down on everything we expect in a DAW, and the concept of third party plugins.
 
Question still unresolved (and has to be resolved if any of us are going to get his help...)
 
Are there effects outside of the traditional comps and eq's and the like that we would like to have, that we can't get anywhere. What do we dream of as far as an unexplored effect that we don't have yet.
 
He said that if we can give him a better description, when he graduates from engineering school (only about a 10 year wait. Will fly in the blinking of an eye.) The kid will design the plugin and give it to all of us for free. It gets better still. After our talk about DRM strangulation and why I was cursing PACE, he said that he will issue the plug with no authorization blocks, and upgrades for life will be free.
 
What else can we ask for...
 
John
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bapu
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/04 20:11:31 (permalink)
JohnKenn
What else can we ask for...
 
John


Whirled Peas.
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JohnKenn
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/04 20:37:38 (permalink)
ouch...
 
Whirled Peas... Was a parting mantra for over 12000 of us mechanics working in the Boeing aircraft plant before we all got laid off onto the streets. Sick inside joke at the time, although our wives and kids with stomachs to be fed didn't see the humor.
 
We got to do better than this. A young, impressionable, naive, idealistic virgin mind is trustingly looking toward us petrified dinosaurs for parting inspiration before we croak and can get out of their way.
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bluzdog
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/04 21:35:48 (permalink)
eph221
  BTW did you know they don't even teach cursive writing in amerikan elementary skools?  I'm aghast!




I have a third grader in public school and he's learning cursive. They also say the pledge of allegiance every morning.
 
Rocky
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Fleer
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/04 22:50:29 (permalink)
JohnKenn
Okay Fleer, the kid is calling you on this one. Wants to know what an affective effect is. He is okay with the Affector name and assumes it will be an audio plugin.

Believe it or not, but I wrote my first book on that, way back when. Still available maybe.
Anyway, as an audio plugin, the Affector would have to do much more than any reverb, chorus, flanger, phaser or multi-effect does seasoning our sounds. Those take the musician as their alpha and the audience as their omega. But your grandson's Affector will include the audience as an equally affective factor for its sound creation. It will affect the player as well as the listener in such a way that both experience the same musical nirvana, as both jointly participate in its creation.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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yorolpal
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/04 23:33:17 (permalink)
Wow...so you're saying that our whole universe could be just one tiny atom on the fingernail of some being who lives in another universe and that just one tiny atom on his or her fingernail could contain yet another universe...or even an infinite number of universes?????

Can you sell me some pot??

😉

https://soundcloud.com/doghouse-riley/tracks 
https://doghouseriley1.bandcamp.com 
Where you come from is gone...where you thought you were goin to weren't never there...and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it.
 
SPLAT 64 bit running on a Studio Cat Pro System Win 10 64bit 2.8ghz Core i7 with 24 gigs ram. MOTU Audio Express.
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Fleer
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/04 23:43:31 (permalink)
Oh yeah.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/05 00:51:48 (permalink)
All that software does and will ever do is mimick reality. This applies to VSTs just as it does to self-driving cars, VR, self-ordering fridges, etc.
 
Hence, IMHO nothing beats learning and understanding about the real physics first, so whatever your grandson embarks on, he should try to get the best possible education in natural sciences first. if you got a solid background, it is easy to understand what is in the box (no matter which box it is, physics work the same, so does math). If you don't have sufficient background, you really don't have much of a chance and live off pieces of scattered information ...

GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER
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#25
JohnKenn
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/05 17:25:21 (permalink)
So true, and confident that the kid is headed in the right direction. Master of Legos before 2, straight A's honor student now. Some of his thoughts on this are quite good. With the whole universe of creative invention and intuition, how come we stopped with maybe 6 or 7 effects. There's got to be number 8 and beyond we haven't thought of yet that would be just as cool and useful as the ones we have settled with.
 
He said not to worry though if we can't think of a new effect class. He'll figure out the next block buster and give it to us for free. Might take awhile, but got faith he can pull it off.
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smallstonefan
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/05 20:40:36 (permalink)
I'd suggest looking at things like Tantra - invest a plugin that lets us create new sounds...
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JohnKenn
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/05 21:47:44 (permalink)
Okay, checking it out. Hey do you really fly those things? Only taxied the small ones around the runway and turned the wrenches for you guys who were up there with the angels.
 
Rocky, with a growing proportion of kids graduation from high school without being able to read and write, political correct injunction to not mention the "G" word in public lest some **** and an army of willing lawyers get offended, so glad to hear that your kid is on the right path.
 
John
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Fleer
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/05 22:52:04 (permalink)
Tantra's a good example, like Output's Movement, SonicCharge's Echobode or even SugarBytes' Obscurium.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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Fleer
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Re: Crystal Ball 2017/01/08 11:29:16 (permalink)
On a personal note, after classical music and flute training between ages 7 and 18, I started looking into hardware synths in the eighties, first getting an Alpha Juno 2, next a Korg DS-8, then an Alesis QuadraSynth and later an Alesis Fusion. Kept the two last ones, yet never played them. Dabbled with (electro) acoustic guitars. Got a 25 Anniversary Ovation from my wife as a wedding present and collected a few more, yet nothing fancy. Picked up tradition some thirty years later with a Roland FA and a few keyboard controllers, including Nektar's P6 and NI's Kontrol S49. Still boxed.
Why am I saying this? During that 30 years interlude, I witnessed the industry turn software and, most importantly, I saw that software became more and more affordable as well as professional.
This software evolution is quite incredible. Mere mortals can now achieve for a few hundred bucks what normally costs tens of thousands. If they're up to it.
And that's a huge if. I'm not just talking musical knowledge. I'm talking musical experience, insight and judgment. As we have and cherish all these plugins, the final courtroom is within our head.
So that's where John's grandson could make a difference. Through learning apps. Or software that allows us to first ascertain which musical direction we want to go, and next helps us with selecting the right plugins. Learning by doing.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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