Curious about the Haas effect. Is that what stereo wideners are doing?

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ward s
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2015/02/12 18:39:13 (permalink)

Curious about the Haas effect. Is that what stereo wideners are doing?

I read this article...
 
http://www.benvesco.com/blog/mixing/2008/turn-a-mono-track-into-rich-stereo/
 
which is about using tiny bits of delay on one channel of a track (or on an identical copy of a mono track) to give a wider sense of space. I played around with it, copying a mono track into a second track and then adding delay to track 2, panning the two tracks all the way to opposite extremes. (If you're an uber-noob like me, it's a fun little experiment to set this up and play with all the variables. You can really hear what is happening.) 
 
No question, right yet. Just thought some other sonar virgin might enjoy it.

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    tlawhon
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    Re: Curious about the Haas effect. Is that what stereo wideners are doing? 2015/02/12 19:04:35 (permalink)
    It's one of the ways to simulate stereo, there are others.   Here's an article with more info.


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    Paul P
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    Re: Curious about the Haas effect. Is that what stereo wideners are doing? 2015/02/12 19:25:42 (permalink)
     
    The Hass effect is also of interest in the design of music rooms.  The same idea, only you play with the room instead of playing with the signal.
     
    Who needs a Haas Kicker? is a thread that gives an idea of the fun you can have.
     
     

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    ward s
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    Re: Curious about the Haas effect. Is that what stereo wideners are doing? 2015/02/12 19:52:10 (permalink)
    Tlawhon: thanks, that's a great article. 
     
    Paul P: Holy crap! that shiz is deep! Fascinating. 

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    jb101
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    Re: Curious about the Haas effect. Is that what stereo wideners are doing? 2015/02/12 20:05:15 (permalink)
    The "Haas effect" must be separated from the "Haas Trick".
     
    I love the sound o the "Haas Trick" on rhythm guitar parts, but I am always mindful of mono-compatibility.
     
     

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    ward s
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    Re: Curious about the Haas effect. Is that what stereo wideners are doing? 2015/02/12 21:43:56 (permalink)
    jb101
    The "Haas effect" must be separated from the "Haas Trick".
    ... I am always mindful of mono-compatibility.
     



    I hear you. Somebody tried to pull a Haas trick on me in New Orleans back in the late '70s. Didn't even occur to me to worry about mono, I was so sure I'd gotten the clap. 
     
    Wait a sec, I think I'm confused. What's the difference between the effect and the trick?

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    ward s
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    Re: Curious about the Haas effect. Is that what stereo wideners are doing? 2015/02/12 21:50:22 (permalink)
    A couple of questions from the above reading:
     
    They talk about mid/side vs Left/Right separation. Does Sonar do Mid/Side processing, or just L/R?
     
    Also, the MStereoSpread info said that it only works on a stereo track; in tracking instruments that I expect I'll want to widen (guitar, voice and such), should I make a habit of recording them to stereo tracks even though they are mono sources?
     

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    Paul P
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    Re: Curious about the Haas effect. Is that what stereo wideners are doing? 2015/02/12 21:55:45 (permalink)
    ward s
    They talk about mid/side vs Left/Right separation. Does Sonar do Mid/Side processing, or just L/R?



    Here's an SOS article by Craig Anderton on the subject using Sonar's Channel Tools plugin.
     

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    Anderton
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    Re: Curious about the Haas effect. Is that what stereo wideners are doing? 2015/02/12 21:58:09 (permalink)
    However, the signal that arrives first will take precedence and "weight" the image toward that side...which is why this is sometimes called the "precedence effect."

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    bayoubill
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    Re: Curious about the Haas effect. Is that what stereo wideners are doing? 2015/02/12 23:25:06 (permalink)
    I had a great time playing with it. In the end I got free Haas after the novelty wore off. I think all new to Sonar should spend some time playing with it manually to learn about space
     
    P.S. 10ms to about 90ms from both sides till you start hearing the doubling kick in. Then you've gone too far. Pretty cool
    post edited by bayoubill - 2015/02/13 02:28:58

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    sharke
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    Re: Curious about the Haas effect. Is that what stereo wideners are doing? 2015/02/13 02:13:09 (permalink)
    To my ears the best mono to stereo effect comes from Waves PS22 X-Split plugin, I love it. What it does is spread the frequencies across the stereo field from low to high in a sine wave (or square) pattern, like this:
     

     
     
    There are many parameters to tweak to get it sounding just the way you want it, and it's extremely mono-compatible because the frequencies just collapse back to how they were before when you combine them into a single channel. 
     
    One of the best things about it is that you can define the lowest frequency at which the stereo effect kicks in, so if you like you can keep the lower frequencies centered and have them open up into stereo as they get higher. You can also "pan" the stereo image from left to right to position it where you like. Great plugin. The Waves S1 Imager is great for widening tracks which are already stereo. 
     
    Another good one, and FREE, is the SHEPPi spacial enhancer which simulates Bob Katz's K-Stereo effect. 
     
    Both of the above mono to stereo plugins sound especially good on things like single miked acoustic guitar. Really adds a new dimension to the sound. 

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    Paul P
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    Re: Curious about the Haas effect. Is that what stereo wideners are doing? 2015/02/13 10:14:09 (permalink)
    sharke
    To my ears the best mono to stereo effect comes from Waves PS22 X-Split plugin, I love it. What it does is spread the frequencies across the stereo field from low to high in a sine wave (or square) pattern, like this:



    That picture is a great summary of the things you can do.  Must be an interesting plugin.  I'll be playing around with constructing something similar out of the various more basic parts I have access to.

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    sharke
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    Re: Curious about the Haas effect. Is that what stereo wideners are doing? 2015/02/13 18:57:58 (permalink)
    Paul P
    sharke
    To my ears the best mono to stereo effect comes from Waves PS22 X-Split plugin, I love it. What it does is spread the frequencies across the stereo field from low to high in a sine wave (or square) pattern, like this:



    That picture is a great summary of the things you can do.  Must be an interesting plugin.  I'll be playing around with constructing something similar out of the various more basic parts I have access to.



    Yeah it's a fantastic plugin but I'm not sure I would have paid the retail of $150 for it, however you can probably say the same about most of the plugins in the Waves bundles. I paid $300 for the Gold bundle in a sale and given how many plugins came with it I'm guessing I probably paid about $10 per plug, lol. 

    James
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