DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO MAKE HIP HOP BEATS??? AND HOW DID YOU LEARN? A

John..it is STRONG because I meant it to be. I can freely admit that my judgement may be clouded by having spent the last couple weeks around a bunch of racists who use similar language and tone. They toss out words like humor when called on their actions and words but it's pretty transparent. I'm going to leave the topic alone since there is a good chance the OP was just a troll looking to get just the kind of comments that Amour was more than willing to provide.

John T


I can scarcely think of anything duller and less creative than an obsession with "real" instruments. 

That may be JT, ol pal, because you are incapable of playing one with any degree of virtuosity.  But don't get me wrong...I loves me some Eugene Chadbourne playing his electric garden rake with a large bra attached to it as much as the next "non-traditional" instrument lovin feller or gal.
 
But as to the jist of this thread I'd like to ask:
 
WHAT IN H-E-DOUBLE-HOCKEY STICKS IS THIS THREAD STILL DOIN IN THE X1 FORUM??? 
 
But please don't move it downstairs...we're out of Glade air fresheners at the moment.
 
 

Well, no cigar, I'm afraid. I've played guitar piano and bass for about 25 years. You have somewhat made the same error of judgement here as others in the thread; the assumption that hip hop is made by incompetents who can't do anything else and liked by the same sort of people. I'd put it to you the other way round; I think some people are overly impressed by their own ability to play an instrument, and overvalue the whole "real" instruments thing. But playing an instrument isn't really all *that* remarkable.

Oddly, some of the best musicians I know produce hip-hop. They could produce any genre of music they choose but have a love for hip-hop. Some of them still produce other genres of music. I find a certain irony that the guys most likely to dismiss and make assumptions about the music talent level of those who create hip-hop tend to make music with very limited range themselves. I think John T brings up a good point about the whole deification of "real instruments". The definition of real instrument constantly shifts. Electric guitars and pianos were dismissed by previous generations as not being real. The valved trumpet was considered cheating among purists when first introduced. This guy plays a drum machine live better than some pro drummers do wit ha full kit: http://www.youtube.com/wa...wURLLhs&feature=relmfu

First, I didn't say anything at all about Hip Hop.  I quite like some of it.  As I do most all other genres and styles.  So it is you who've ASSumed too much as well as I have regarding your "talents".  But...I have played piano and guitar for over 35 years and have made my living at it (even in Nashville for a goodly time where you must know your stuff) and I would NEVER claim to play with real virtuosity...so pardon me if your "length of service" as it were doesn't change my supposition.  No offense intended...I'm sure you're a fine player.  Tommy Emmanuel is a virtuoso...not you or I...I'm sure you'd agree.  And if you play as well as you intimate and by that know how difficult it is and how long it takes to be simply proficient at an intstrument (traditional or not) I don't see how you can view that as not that remarkable.  I meant what I said about ol Eugene...he can flat git it:-)

What I personally find remarkable is the ability to create compelling pieces of music, in any genre. Instrument players do not have any particular monopoly on that, and there are plenty of instrument players, probably a majority, who have no skill in that area at all. Your man Tommy Emmanuel is certainly dexterous, but he's also, to my ears, boring as all hell and a one-trick pony, however slick the trick may be. Virtuosity can be a useful tool in the service of a creative idea, but it's neither necessary nor sufficient for making worthwhile art.

You know, Flavor Flav from Public Enemy is a pretty good guitarist, pianist and drummer. He's never played on any of the records, because that's *not what Public Enemy do*.

One of the big name musicians who has shown the best judgement of what I'm talking about over the years, I would say is Prince. If the idea requires a big band with a massive complex arrangement and everyone playing out of their skins, then he does that. If the idea requires a dead basic drum machine and half spoken lyrics, he does that. He's a serious virtuoso. Can play world class guitarists, pianists, bassists and drummers right off the stage. And a lot of people don't even know this, because virtuosity is never the *reason* why one of his tunes exists.

Well, as they said so many times in "Raising Arizona", OK then.  But I'm afraid you've revealed a bit more of yourself than you know ol pal.  Something you seem so reticent to do.  And I appreciate that sincerely and will keep it here in my pocket.  Thanks...honest.

PS:  You are also the only guitarist I know (and I know many...too many) who would describe ol Tommy like that.  I'd keep that to myself if I were you...you might just get laughed out of the session.  Tick a lock.

Well, go on, what have I revealed?

I think Eric Clapton sucks ass too, if we're doing sacred cows.

Shhhh.  Tick a lock.

Come on man, this is lame. You normally do better than this.

I hate Rush! And I don't like Steely Dan!

Beat that, John! ;)

Rush are appalling. To my ears, in my opinion, etc.

Which doesn't prevent me from appreciating their talent (before someone start pricking needles in dolls w/ a picture of my face on it. ;)

"worst kind of racist"

great lyrics in this thread

taking a short phrase from each post provides many ideas

Rush and ACDC have stupid sounding vocals, and fun music.

Most all songs have way simplistic moronic lyrics.

Best lyric action these days is in C&W and Rap.  And some hardest rock guys are doing some talking.

And even the misogynistic and racist bits are amazing collections of phrases and rhymes.

(Also: I hate loud snare drums and ride cymbals.) 

Rain


Which doesn't prevent me from appreciating their talent (before someone start pricking needles in dolls w/ a picture of my face on it. ;)

Well thats just being odd,we all know our avatars are of other people,we used to know.


What did the James Hetfeild picking thing mean? 


I ain't no jazz chorder,but I know a few barre chords and some open chords too,my real deal is being a twisted version of myself,and man I wish it would cool down[temperature] here,so I can work in my un-insulated office where my desktop is.


Then I can actually record a whole song[gasp!] any way did you check this link,does the OP work for these people?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPV8c9rVQpg&feature=youtu.be  What do you think.............complete horror!

Most Blues get boring way fast.

I think a lot of things can get boring pretty fast. That's why I like to listen to all kinds of different things. Even my own scribblings....

bobguitkillerleft

Rain


Which doesn't prevent me from appreciating their talent (before someone start pricking needles in dolls w/ a picture of my face on it. ;)

Well thats just being odd,we all know our avatars are of other people,we used to know.


What did the James Hetfeild picking thing mean? 

Well, you probably know Hetfield and how he has a solid reputation as a rhythm player in his genre - particularly for those fast syncopated rhythms, all downstrokes and such.That particular talent he has can be impressive in itself. But he can also use his other hand and play chords to make things a bit more interesting.

Hip Hop to me is like a guy w/ a phenomenal right hand but no left hand to play chords - so he just strums the E string at 100 mph and do all the crazy syncopated things. 

I prefer when that particular talent (sense of rhythm) is combined w/ an ability to actually sing a melody.

jm24


Most Blues get boring way fast.

I think Jimmy Page used to say that blues was so tough to play for that reason - it's hard to come up w/ anything fresh to say w/in the limits of the genre.

Well, I love Rush(pre 1981) but I hate Geddy Lee's vocals. I love the instrumentals.  I love ACDC(Bon-Scott). I can't stand Brian Johnson.  I love some blues. Eric Clapton was great with Cream but he's overrated as a guitarist. I love Zeppelin and think they are still underapprecated. I don't think they ever put out a bad album. Robert Plant was a bit overbearing at times.

Any band, can produce good music. I HATE....DESPISE Duran Duran but they put out that one song, Ordinary World and I never even knew it was them until someone told me.

At any rate, I think it's the pop acts that really put a bad light on Rap and Hip Hop in general. Those genres will never win me over but I can appreciate that there is some talent involved with SOME of the acts.

So has the OP come back to visit?

try playing guitar on stage as you sing, it is somthing unheard of in hip hop .
and anyone notice that 90 percent of hophop beats start with the same 2 bass drum hits always
 it bump or bump bump.
 so now the only talent  involved is in the vocalist ability to keep that 2 second beat interesting for 3 min
so yes hiphop music is nothing more than a basic formula, but hiphop vocalists are masters of the craft.
by the way this thread is shocking still on the top.hmm why.
 
 
 

Lil Wayne often plays guitar on stage. Took me seconds to think of that one. 

Oh, and there's multi instrumentalist Andre 3000 from outkast too. 

ive got to post this link again, some studio this for the same two drum hits, bump bump http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuHNkLbpLe4

brilliant thing about this thread is the OP is gone in the wind, a cracked software user lol haaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaa

Chregg


ive got to post this link again, some studio this for the same two drum hits, bump bump http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuHNkLbpLe4

He is so spot on with the inspiration aspects...

"try playing guitar on stage as you sing, it is somthing unheard of in hip hop" some statements are just bizarre. It's virtually unheard of to play guitar onstage at an Opera. It's unheard for a metal lead singer to play the harp while singing. Again, most of the complaints about hip-hop tend to be weak attempts to force one of the most potentially flexible genres into narrow stereotype. I have seen rappers p[laying guitar, but let me know when you find that metal singer playing harp on stage. Hip-hop can theoretically be created in any manner one chooses. Just because the most currently viable version at the moment sticks to a particular formula, does not make that statement any more true. i have seen at least 10 rappers off the top of my head, known and unknown rap while playing guitar, so at the very least it is heard of even if it's the exception.

Rain

bobguitkillerleft

Rain


Which doesn't prevent me from appreciating their talent (before someone start pricking needles in dolls w/ a picture of my face on it. ;)

Well thats just being odd,we all know our avatars are of other people,we used to know.


What did the James Hetfeild picking thing mean? 

Well, you probably know Hetfield and how he has a solid reputation as a rhythm player in his genre - particularly for those fast syncopated rhythms, all downstrokes and such.That particular talent he has can be impressive in itself. But he can also use his other hand and play chords to make things a bit more interesting.

Hip Hop to me is like a guy w/ a phenomenal right hand but no left hand to play chords - so he just strums the E string at 100 mph and do all the crazy syncopated things. 

I prefer when that particular talent (sense of rhythm) is combined w/ an ability to actually sing a melody.

Now I get it,a guy I used to be in a band with,played rhythm using all down strokes but it was not metal.


It was kinda unique music,kinda heavy,kinda pop,kinda countryish at times,but that dude really influenced me to play rhythm properly,especially when recording.


Singing while playing is something I find very difficult but,I was making progress,until recently[no time]
I'm of the belief the male voice gets better with age.

many of you are under the assumption that even the seemingly "one-dimensional" acts that use the same type of production for every song are necessarily limited in talent, rather than simply making the business decision to do what works. In the video Dappa1 posted, several of those guys are clearly multi-talented. The one guy was amazing on drums and damn good on piano. yet, their songs are not exactly symphonies because they understand the trends (which could easily change) are.

Back in Black isn't exactly a symphony either, but nobody complains about that. Simplicity is often deliberate. 

back in black IS a symphony when sung by Wing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5z0EXyqzZo

I think we all have some sort of stereotype about what forms of music goes with what instruments as well...now there are forms of metal that take in folk forms of music...an example...Korpiklanni...violin and accordian in the mix... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt3pTG50nLw

Or...how about throat singing and metal? Ego Falls...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh-yafzptuQ

So, like metal mixtures there is also rap/country...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI8cGOf0Olk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnSEQx9wkvE&feature=related

Again...taking no argumentative side whatever in this absolutely dimwitted "genre" debate...how the heck has this thread NOT been moved??

I mean insert any...and I mean any (opera, bluegrass, pop, Latvian folk songs, Sousa marches, sea shanties, novelty, goth...ad infinitum) genre for hip hop in the thread title (or meaning) and tell me what on gawd's green earth any of this has to do with Sonar X1??

IIRC the OP even mentions Fruity Loops in his original post.  Not Sonar.

Why is this still here??

yorolpal

 Why is this still here??

There are still a few..... uhmmm.... maybe 1 or 2, that are trying to get their point across.
This has EVERYTHING to do with Sonar X1!
Sonar X1 is THE ONE (and was MADE EXCLUSIVELY) for the Hip Hop Beatz dontchaknow?
Nothing comes close to this beat maker..... nothing can touch it.
It's coming down to where we need a beat off.... who wants to get together and do a beat off? C'mon...  don't tell me you're NOT into a beat off session. I can beat it - you can beat it - we all need to beat it together.... let's beat our stuff guys! c'mon let's beat together! We need to share our talents....  together!

John T


Oh, and there's multi instrumentalist Andre 3000 from outkast too. 

Andre 3000 is incredibly talented......when they[Outkast] came out with "Yeah yar" or whatever,I HATED it,but that song BOB "Bombs Over Bahgdad" is incredible,completely mind numbing.

dubdisciple


many of you are under the assumption that even the seemingly "one-dimensional" acts that use the same type of production for every song are necessarily limited in talent, rather than simply making the business decision to do what works. In the video Dappa1 posted, several of those guys are clearly multi-talented. The one guy was amazing on drums and damn good on piano. yet, their songs are not exactly symphonies because they understand the trends (which could easily change) are.

Whatever the decision is based upon... I fully understand having to put food on the table and artistic compromises. But the fact of the matter is, if I restricted myself to such a formula, I would despise myself even more than I dislike the worst hip hop act you can think of. 

I know some multi-talented folks who do hip hop. I know how talented they are, besides their ability to rhyme. But it's not about talent or virtuosity or whatever - though a lot of that hip hop stuff relies heavily on a form of "virtuosity" or special skill - that's what rhyming is, somehow.

Whether the guy is rapping or running scales on a guitar at 200 mph over the same type of beat, I wouldn't enjoy it more. It seems like a fun activity, I just don't see the interest in listening to it. It's way too restrictive.

Someone mentioned Back In Black, and sure it's a simple song. I'm not big AC/DC fan, but I dig rock. There's a diversity to it, even for bands as formula-based as AC/DC can sometimes be. And you probably couldn't mistake AC/DC for The Doors. Or Nirvana. Or Aerosmith. Or Led Zeppelin. Heck, there's probably more diversity on a single Led Zeppelin LP side than there is in the whole Hip Hop-dom, altogether. 

I mean, Back and Black, Stairway to Heaven and Welcome to the Jungle - it's all rock. But if rock was about as diverse as sticking to the Back in Black template, or if Led Zeppelin only played 3 chords blues, I wouldn't dig that much either. These are only ingredients, we can vary the recipe a bit.

What are your views on Bhangra?

You couldn't mistake De La Soul for Public Enemy, nor Kanye West for Jay Z. Nor the Furious Five for Blackalicious. 

The Jungle Brothers - Straight Out The Jungle
BDP - Criminal Minded
Raekwon -  Only Built 4 Cuban Linx
Beastie Boys - Pauls Boutique
Run DMC - first album
Ultramagnetic MCs - Critical Beatdown
Redman - Whut Thee Album
Aesop Rock - Labor Days

I believe none of them were made with X1.

The idea that hip hop lacks diversity is making my brain hurt.

How similar are these, really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKlYQz6dJYM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcW3jiwBPPg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6zH6uMyU9c

You couldn't get three more different sounding records.
 
EDIT: bonus track. Mainstream pop take on it, and still really odd and imaginative:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3j3LD9hNWA

I didn't think of bands like Public Enemy and Run DMC as "hip hop". Are the Beastie Boys considered hip hop? They're brilliant. Ill Communications is on my favorite albums list. In my DJ days, we thought of them as an hybrid band rapping. 

Rap, that's what I remember hearing about back then, before hip hop became the in thing. And a touch of it I appreciate.  
 
I guess my vision is tainted by commercial "hip hop" - that is, what would be left of the Beastie Boys if you removed all the creativity and only left an MC with lots of talent for rhyming but no sense of melody whatsoever. That's the part I can't dig. The hip hop that's nothing but typical hip hop. 

Maybe if Eminem or one of them big HH stars did something like Fight for your Rights or No Sleep til Brooklyn, I'd see the versatility... And if those songs are Hip Hop, well, darn, I like Hip Hop a lot.

 On the other hand, there's a Lovage album w/ Dan the Automator, Mike Patton and Jennifer Charles which I adore - and I suppose it's hip hop. Same for Tricky, he did stuff I like. Though I couldn't listen to that for hours and days. But on occasion it's nice.

You don't think of Public Enemy and RUN DMC as hip hop? Because they definitely think of themselves that way. This conversation is getting odder and odder. Run DMC not hip hop? What?

Run DMC goes way back. Back then, at least around where I lived, we never heard of "hip hop" - rap, though...

rap is something you do, hip hop is something you live, a way of life, culture

Anthrax used to say they liked to mix rap and metal, not Hip Hop and metal. But I guess nowadays they'd have to change their lyrics...

to all the cats here dogging hip hop/rap, saying its easy to do or wat ever, i defy anyone of you's to produce something as good as dre or the rza !!

the anthrax thing with public enemy was a two way thing

Rain, you personally may not have heard of hip hop way back, but I assure you it certainly did exist, and Run DMC were precisely it. And they certainly don't pre-date it. It was *at least* ten years old by the time they were kicking around.

Chregg


rap is something you do, hip hop is something you live, a way of life, culture

That's something you'll have to carefully define for me if you will - because what's commercialized as a way of life and a culture out there isn't too shinny and does nothing to redeem the music.

I picked up the Anthrax thing as an example because I seriously asked myself - was it because I was living in that remote location that the words "hip hop" were almost unheard of? 

But heck, even they (Anthrax) referred to that type of music as "rap" - and they were in the Bronx IIRC, so I guess I'm not the only one not to have thought of Run DMC as Hip Hop. Now I'm being told that it's hip hop, and a way of life, and that rap is a part of the way of life. I'm ok w/ it - simply trying to point out why the terminology got me confused here.

I think the struggle to find a meaningful distinction between hip hop and rap is a bit of a waste of energy, myself.

@ rain, krs one broke down hip hop culture as : rappin/mc'ing/beatboxing, dj-ing, break dancing, graphitti art, street knowledge/wisdom, street trade/business,entrenpreneur , fashion as well

I'm not attempting to - in fact, I'm glad I learned something today. :)

I was speaking more to Chregg there. There are of course these micro-distinctions to be made, as there is in any broad genre, but I think it's minutiae, really. And probably just muddies the waters at the level we're discussing it here.

john like i was saying, hip hop/rap, its 6 and 2 x 3

duplicate