Philip
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De-Essing
And plosives (pop shields don't always help) ... I realize this is covered a good bit ... but it is still problematic. So please chime in your thoughts. Guilty as charged: My vox is worSt. (Children and females don't seem to Ess as much ... I may be wrong) Shure dynamic mics ... to a lessor extent than condenSorS Shure condensor Headsets (and/or everyone's?) Condensor mics: U87s, AKG414s, etc. redeem little Electret mics ... almost as bad as headsets RME ff400 phantom powered pre-amps, To a lessor extent, Avalon and Neve Portico pre-amps. Extremely high end (32kHz) high-shelf boosts 8 to 9 kHz siblants per se (and their harmonics) Some current solutions: 1) I think some of you try to de-ess early in the signal change as plugins don't always help. 2) Plugins oft set side-chain (shunt) compressor threshold of -30 dcbls!?! (@ 8.8kHz narrow Q) (Voxformer allows this!). 3) EQing down the high treble (>20kHz?) on the pre or post equalizer(s) 4) 'Pre-Side-chain compression (Avalon 737) ... which strips some vox tone and dynamics.
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Guitarhacker
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What do you do if the person speaking has a lot of esssses and whistling sounds in their normal speech....man that bugs me.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Legion
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Re:De-Essing
2010/05/27 14:36:51
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What do you do if the person speaking has a lot of esssses and whistling sounds in their normal speech....man that bugs me. You punch 'em in the mouth so they get a fat lip, that should solve he problem For less plosives place the singer a little off axis, it helps a lot.
Sadly very reduced studio equipment as it is... ASUS G750J, 8 gb RAM, Win8, Roland Quad Capture.
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ohhey
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Re:De-Essing
2010/05/27 14:43:58
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Philip And plosives (pop shields don't always help) ... I realize this is covered a good bit ... but it is still problematic. So please chime in your thoughts. Guilty as charged: My vox is worSt. (Children and females don't seem to Ess as much ... I may be wrong) Shure dynamic mics ... to a lessor extent than condenSorS Shure condensor Headsets (and/or everyone's?) Condensor mics: U87s, AKG414s, etc. redeem little Electret mics ... almost as bad as headsets RME ff400 phantom powered pre-amps, To a lessor extent, Avalon and Neve Portico pre-amps. Extremely high end (32kHz) high-shelf boosts 8 to 9 kHz siblants per se (and their harmonics) Some current solutions: 1) I think some of you try to de-ess early in the signal change as plugins don't always help. 2) Plugins oft set side-chain (shunt) compressor threshold of -30 dcbls!?! (@ 8.8kHz narrow Q) (Voxformer allows this!). 3) EQing down the high treble (>20kHz?) on the pre or post equalizer(s) 4) 'Pre-Side-chain compression (Avalon 737) ... which strips some vox tone and dynamics. Plugins often don't work well because they can't hear the rest of the production. For example an Ess might be just fine at higher level if it happens at the same time as a cymbal crash but need to be reduced by a greater amount when it happens at some point in the song where there are no other loud sounds in that range. If the plugin reduces based on level alone it might not reduce enough on some and in other spots give the singer a lisp. So after the recording is made the best way to fix them is to use the clip gain envelope and adjust each one to the correct level. This is a lot of work in some cases but worth it for perfect results. Prevention is another issue. Finding the right mic can help or even moving the mic slightly off axis or back some so the singer is not directly in front of the element. Having the mic above the singer kinda pointed down at them can help. Pop filters only help on low frequency pops and do little to reduce esses. If the performer has a serious problem like whistle through a tooth gap, a tiny bit of bubble gum in the gap might be needed.
post edited by ohhey - 2010/05/27 14:51:05
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MarlboroMan23
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Switching from an Alesis/GT Electronics AM52 (large diaphragm condenser) to a Samson VR88 (ribbon) really cut down of esses for vocalists that were prone to that problem. After the fact I like using two different de-essers in series each with lighter settings; like using compressors in series. De-essers are just frequency dependent compressors. I've read several times that taping a pencil to the front of a large diaphragm condenser will cut down on the esses problem. Anyone ever try this?
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Philip
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Thanks Marlboro, G-Hacker, Legion, and Ohhey, I've taped my finger to the front of a large diaphragm condensor mic (which only helps with the plosives on my AKG 414 ... but not the U-87. I'll research the Samson VR88 ... as I know (more and more) mics do make a diFFerenCe. OK, the VR88 is known for its flatter mellower vintage tone ... less presence, forwardness, etc.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSaSNId5yUc Oh! That guy is Essing it with horrorS on the AKG (vs the Samson).
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MarlboroMan23
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Looks like the VR88 is getting hard to find after they dropped the price down to $150.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:De-Essing
2010/05/28 05:27:02
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Try a multimband compressor with an EQ in the sidechain. Set the other bands to not compress, only have the high band activated. Stick Voxengon span on to identify where the offending frequencies live Accentuate this freq in the EQ so the compressor has more to work on. ________________________________________________________ Or, Split all your ssssssss clips either side of the sssssssss Put a clip gain envelope on to reduce the sssss - or even an EQ Ssss's can b ereally problematic when you got harmony/backing vox singing the same trhing, especially if/when the timing fo them isn't spot on. You get a cacade of s - s - s - s - s at the end of the word. In this case, it's usually best to only get the lead vox to actually sing the s at the end of the word. So in the case of "I've got piles"  only the lead vox vox sings 'piles', everyone else sings 'pile' You'll like some of my songs.....
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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Guitarhacker
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seriously.... good advice... I have also used the REDUCE GAIN by a certain db ...... I split the essss out after zooming in.... highlight the esssss clip and reduce the gain until the esssss is under control.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Philip
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Bristol, G-Hacker, As always, your advice is headed. Your sidechain settings on the Avalon 737 are my most recent thing. For some 'unknown' reason, it seems to compress more than the narrow Q freqs I've pushed through the sidechain ... but it sounds great (and I need pre-compression as I have issues with too many clip-gain envelopes) I almost always manually cut out the consonants of backing singers. Nothing ranks like hearing plosives and sibs piling the panorama.
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bitflipper
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Re:De-Essing
2010/05/28 16:01:28
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My first line of defense for essiness is V-Vocal, which I use 5% of the time for pitch correction and 95% for dynamics editing. With it I can not only surgically tame "S"s and "F"s and "T"s and "K"s but also woofy vowels and overbearing "P"s. Taking the time to work out dynamics in this way makes subsequent processing with compressors much less heavy-handed and therefore more transparent. And requires less trial-and-error tweaking with a compressor. Sometimes, though, truly offensive sibilance cannot be treated by volume changes alone, because they have resonances that stick out even after being lowered in volume. For those, I'll usually do some forensic testing, and once I've identified the problem frequency (using the narrow-band sweep technique) then employ the Sonitus multiband with a fast attack and release. In severe cases, or if it's just one isolated squawk in an otherwise good track, I'll resort to Audition's spectral editor. You can't beat it for microscopic editing. It's able to take out little nasties of many flavors while leaving the surrounding audio untouched.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Philip
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+1 sir; thanks for your most excellent thoughts on this. You hit the ploSives on the sPoT. "Woofy vowels" also afflict me. (like "lUv" and/or 654 Hz tones and timbres) I suppose, I'd try the same thing with Melodyne (the junkie that I am) ... which is becoming less moody of late.
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ShadDOH
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I have the perfect example of deessing... "he ells ea hells down by the ea hore" Now that's some mighty fine deessing!
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