Keni
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Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
I don't know if this is only from 8.5.3 or even if it's with any songs created in earlier (Pre-X) versions...
Open 8.5.3 song in X3d
Open the PC on any track
Expected:
PC plugins should be the default plugins
Actual:
I get Bus Compressor, EQ, Tube Saturation, and Console Emulator Bus
Why is it defaulting to Bus devices on tracks?
Anyone else find this?
Keni
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 02:50:24
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Sorry , I can be of no help here. I always leave projects from prior Sonar versions in their original Sonar version, so I never open and edit them in subsequent versions.
So, when I got X1, I only created new projects there, and the same when I went to X2, then on to X3.
I no longer have any 8.5.3 projects, and no longer have 8.5.3 installed, nor do I even still have the discs to install it to check out your particular situation.
I just thought I would at least let you know that I DID read your post - just have no immediate help for you - sorry.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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dubdisciple
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 03:29:19
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I have no 8.53 projects either. Hmmm maybe the demo projects are on my old install discs
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jb101
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 06:43:40
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Hi, Keni, I will have a little play later with some older projects to see what I can see.
I do think it's sad that the Alex Bug is spreading, and that people are now posting in this formal manner, especially someone like you, Keni.
This used to be a friendly place that humans posted for support from their peers, not a highly policed Beta Test Forum. Very sad. <sigh>
I will experiment with your steps later, Keni. I hope this forum can return from Robot Nerd Hell soon.
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mettelus
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 07:14:00
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I have a bunch and have seen what you are posting. I see the (PC76 U-type Compressor, EQ, and Tube Saturation), but the two I just opened (from 2005) do not include the Console Emulator (although I have seen this default as well). Although they come up, the PC is off, as are all modules, so I have never had an issue with this. They are easily replaced (via the presets), and I certainly do not want CW to decide what should be on/off there. If them came online to someone else's "generic preference" in a ON state, I would have issues. I have advanced projects through versions, but immediately save them with the version in the name so I know what was edited where. I have pulled wrk files from 1999 into the X-series without issues.
post edited by mettelus - 2013/12/28 12:15:57
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Splat 
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 10:20:33
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jb101 I do think it's sad that the Alex Bug is spreading, and that people are now posting in this formal manner, especially someone like you, Keni.These sort of personal daily derogatory comments from you jb101 are getting extremely old. Any chance you get you jump in to criticise me personally. I get it, you don't like me and you don't like my methods (you've written about 50 posts this last month tell people how awful I am). Funnily enough these methods are managing to identify issues a lot more easily than have been in the past in these forums, and this WILL help Cakewalk reproduce bugs. Having worked in QA depts. myself I know half the bug reports you get are withdrawn because you can't understand what the user is getting across. Now here I understood what Keni had to say straight away and so did you. BTW these methods aren't mine, they are used in software QA depts all over the world It's called "test cases". But sure, you hate it and you hate me. I get it. Now please stop and be a little more positive, it's not constructive for any of us. Thankyou... Back to topic.... Keni - Sorry I only have X1 and above right now...
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2013/12/28 10:33:25
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Anderton
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 11:12:11
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I don't think it's necessary to make this personal...I do find the "formal" bug report format helpful for quick scans of understanding an issue, at least it's easier for me than going through text. Also, the "formal" aspect pretty much disappears after the first post in a thread that does the setup. Granted that Alex is known to go over the top sometimes, but it's important to understand that Alex IS a robot - he's an experimental android project created at the University of Antwerp in the Netherlands. Alex stands for " Android Logic- Enabled e Xperiment," and he was originally optimized to scan through millions of lines of code (a task humans generally don't like). Apparently he's rather genial in person, although the fact that he doesn't need to sleep causes some issues and in the past couple years, he's kind of taken on a life of his own. He's also quite an accomplished musician; here's a clip of his band from a performance they did at least year's Musikmesse. Alex is the one playing bass. But getting back to the reporting of issues, I do think this is a "temporary" situation as bugs/issues will surface when there's a new update, but then fade into the background once they're reported and/or fixed. We're already seeing more threads about getting the most out of X3d as people start using it more, and I suspect that trend will continue. Besides, it's
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Splat
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 11:18:15
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 BTW here is screenshot of the Cakewalk problem reporter in case some people have never seen it, look familiar? BTW I didn't create this, maybe another robot ;) 
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2013/12/28 11:24:18
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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jb101
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 11:53:48
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CakeAlexS
jb101
I do think it's sad that the Alex Bug is spreading, and that people are now posting in this formal manner, especially someone like you, Keni.
These sort of personal daily derogatory comments from you jb101 are getting extremely old. Any chance you get you jump in to criticise me personally. I get it, you don't like me and you don't like my methods (you've written about 50 posts this last month tell people how awful I am). Funnily enough these methods are managing to identify issues a lot more easily than have been in the past in these forums, and this WILL help Cakewalk reproduce bugs. Having worked in QA depts. myself I know half the bug reports you get are withdrawn because you can't understand what the user is getting across. Now here I understood what Keni had to say straight away and so did you. BTW these methods aren't mine, they are used in software QA depts all over the world It's called "test cases". But sure, you hate it and you hate me. I get it. Now please stop and be a little more positive, it's not constructive for any of us. Thankyou... Back to topic.... Keni - Sorry I only have X1 and above right now... That's my point, Alex. This is a user forum, and not a QA department or a Cakewalk Problem Reporter. I have posted several comments about your behavior on here, but you have posted far more rude, bullying, belittling comments towards others repeatedly.. No one has appointed you to the post of forum police or saviour of Cakewalk. Please give it a rest and stop being so singularly unpleasant.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 11:58:31
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As much as it can be annoying when forums become overly formal, it is more annoying to see endless posts like "Cakewalk, fix your stupid [insert feature]. It doesn't work like [insert product]" and we have to pull teeth for several pages to get to exactly what the problem is. I have had a couple of not so good moments with Alex but I do realize he is trying to help. Maybe that enthusiasm goes over the top, but the intentions are good. I don't always agree with his methods or how he interacts but it is no more my job to police him than it is his job to police others. I think you take it all as a package with him and filter what you cannot tolerate without tossing the baby out with the bath
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brundlefly
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 12:02:10
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Keni
I get Bus Compressor, EQ, Tube Saturation, and Console Emulator Bus
Why is it defaulting to Bus devices on tracks?
I don't get either console emulator by default in either existing or newly inserted tracks in old projects. But I do get the PC4K S-Type Bus Compressor in existing tracks in old projects instead of the PC76 U-type that's the default for new tracks.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 12:10:14
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I found the old Javier Colon project, which i believe was an 8.53 project (maybe older) and it places the bus console emulator on each track. I did not get the bus compressor as default but rather the PC76 U-type It's curious but I suppose i would expect oddity from a project made when pro channel did not exist.
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mettelus
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 12:14:38
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I neglected to clarify which compressor I got in the above post, it was the PC76 U-type as well. Sorry if that confused anyone, let me edit that post quick.
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Keni
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 12:15:49
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robert_e_bone
Sorry , I can be of no help here. I always leave projects from prior Sonar versions in their original Sonar version, so I never open and edit them in subsequent versions.
So, when I got X1, I only created new projects there, and the same when I went to X2, then on to X3.
I no longer have any 8.5.3 projects, and no longer have 8.5.3 installed, nor do I even still have the discs to install it to check out your particular situation.
I just thought I would at least let you know that I DID read your post - just have no immediate help for you - sorry.
Bob Bone
Thanks Bob... I have to keep all versions available (within reason) to support my clients... I also like to take advantage of new things where I can... I think this is not new to x3d... I seem to remember noticing this before but ignoring talking about it as it's not terribly difficult to deal with... Thanks for checking with me... Keni
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dubdisciple
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 12:16:00
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Another oddity I noticed was that on this project it somehow opened an older version of the quad curve EQ
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mettelus
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 12:20:06
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I didn't think that was possible... I thought it was hardcoded to X3?
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Keni
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 12:20:44
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jb101
Hi, Keni, I will have a little play later with some older projects to see what I can see.
I do think it's sad that the Alex Bug is spreading, and that people are now posting in this formal manner, especially someone like you, Keni.
This used to be a friendly place that humans posted for support from their peers, not a highly policed Beta Test Forum. Very sad. <sigh>
I will experiment with your steps later, Keni. I hope this forum can return from Robot Nerd Hell soon.
Hi jb... Don't worry, I'll be back to my normal prose very soon I'm sure. I am trying to cooperate with some who need this to feel comfortable so I will do it a bit, but many of my posts are my human reactions and confusion and I couldn't give a recipe as soon as I discover the issue... I will post it that early and later supply a recipe if requested... Usually by that time I can easily do so... ;-) I've done lots of beta work and comply with them for their needs... This is not a test forum tho we do so to support and discover strengths and weaknesses as well as help each other... I do not intend to make it a formal report site... For that I would expect remuneration! ;-) Keni
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Keni
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 12:24:20
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mettelus
I have a bunch and have seen what you are posting. I see the (PC76 U-type Compressor, EQ, and Tube Saturation), but the two I just opened (from 2005) do not include the Console Emulator (although I have seen this default as well). Although they come up, the PC is off, as are all modules, so I have never had an issue with this. They are easily replaced (via the presets), and I certainly do not want CW to decide what should be on/off there. If them came online to someone else's "generic preference" in a ON state, I would have issues.
I have advanced projects through versions, but immediately save them with the version in the name so I know what was edited where. I have pulled wrk files from 1999 into the X-series without issues.
Hi mettelus... I've been getting this for a long time and I too ignored it as I could change it... But now having to do this for a number if songs over and over has made it a bit more important! ;-) I typically do the same as you... I move to the new version and add the new version number to the file name... Keni
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Splat
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 12:24:52
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> I have posted several comments about your behavior on here, but you have posted far more rude, bullying, belittling comments towards others repeatedly.. JB101 just use this thread as a typical example. I didn't post anything at all in this thread and yet you post a derogatory comment about me from nowhere. You are at risk of becoming delusional and obsessive. Please stop it's not good for your health or for mine. dubdisciple
I don't always agree with his methods or how he interacts but it is no more my job to police him than it is his job to police others.
+1 I have no right to be forum police with anybody, I can only guide people (as they can guide me). So JB101 please adopt this method towards me, you are NOT the forum police either. There was no need for that first comment of yours, I wasn't even in this thread, and now you are (of course) at full scale war with me for some reason. As I said I get it, you dislike me and my methods. Now please move on.... And Keni I must apologise for this hijacking of your thread. Sorry...
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Keni
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 12:27:19
(permalink)
CakeAlexS
jb101
I do think it's sad that the Alex Bug is spreading, and that people are now posting in this formal manner, especially someone like you, Keni.
These sort of personal daily derogatory comments from you jb101 are getting extremely old. Any chance you get you jump in to criticise me personally. I get it, you don't like me and you don't like my methods (you've written about 50 posts this last month tell people how awful I am). Funnily enough these methods are managing to identify issues a lot more easily than have been in the past in these forums, and this WILL help Cakewalk reproduce bugs. Having worked in QA depts. myself I know half the bug reports you get are withdrawn because you can't understand what the user is getting across. Now here I understood what Keni had to say straight away and so did you. BTW these methods aren't mine, they are used in software QA depts all over the world It's called "test cases". But sure, you hate it and you hate me. I get it. Now please stop and be a little more positive, it's not constructive for any of us. Thankyou... Back to topic.... Keni - Sorry I only have X1 and above right now... Hi Alex... Not to worry... I take no offence and I appreciate your help... I'm sorry you and jb have some issues but I think we're all here for pretty much the same reasons... Personalities can easily get bruised.... Thanks for trying... Keni
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Splat
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 12:28:36
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Keni
Hi Alex...
Not to worry... I take no offence and I appreciate your help... I'm sorry you and jb have some issues but I think we're all here for pretty much the same reasons... Personalities can easily get bruised....
Thanks for trying...
Keni
Thanks Keni. And JB101 I am happy to leave you alone, please leave me alone and everything will be fine (and these threads won't get trashed). Like I say I have heard what you have got to say, you have heard what I've got to say. There's no point in drilling an endless point... Thankyou.
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Keni
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 12:29:29
(permalink)
Anderton
I don't think it's necessary to make this personal...I do find the "formal" bug report format helpful for quick scans of understanding an issue, at least it's easier for me than going through text. Also, the "formal" aspect pretty much disappears after the first post in a thread that does the setup.
Granted that Alex is known to go over the top sometimes, but it's important to understand that Alex IS a robot - he's an experimental android project created at the University of Antwerp in the Netherlands. Alex stands for "Android Logic-Enabled eXperiment," and he was originally optimized to scan through millions of lines of code (a task humans generally don't like). Apparently he's rather genial in person, although the fact that he doesn't need to sleep causes some issues and in the past couple years, he's kind of taken on a life of his own.
He's also quite an accomplished musician; here's a clip of his band from a performance they did at least year's Musikmesse. Alex is the one playing bass.
But getting back to the reporting of issues, I do think this is a "temporary" situation as bugs/issues will surface when there's a new update, but then fade into the background once they're reported and/or fixed. We're already seeing more threads about getting the most out of X3d as people start using it more, and I suspect that trend will continue.
Besides, it's
Ahhh... I wondered how the Antwerp experiments were going! ;-) Keni
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Keni
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 12:36:56
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CakeAlexS
> I have posted several comments about your behavior on here, but you have posted far more rude, bullying, belittling comments towards others repeatedly..
JB101 just use this thread as a typical example. I didn't post anything at all in this thread and yet you post a derogatory comment about me from nowhere. You are at risk of becoming delusional and obsessive. Please stop it's not good for your health or for mine.
dubdisciple
I don't always agree with his methods or how he interacts but it is no more my job to police him than it is his job to police others.
+1
I have no right to be forum police with anybody, I can only guide people (as they can guide me).
So JB101 please adopt this method towards me, you are NOT the forum police either. There was no need for that first comment of yours, I wasn't even in this thread, and now you are (of course) at full scale war with me for some reason. As I said I get it, you dislike me and my methods. Now please move on....
And Keni I must apologise for this hijacking of your thread. Sorry...
Thanks Alex... Not to worry. I take no personal issues of this type with members of the forum... We all live very different lives and don't get to see each other's shoes let alone walk a mile in them... I do my best to ignore personal "attacks" and not react to them in my replies... Not always easy and I'm sure I'm not always successful, but I work at it... I hope you guys can arrive at a settlement where you can get along better... Keni
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jb101
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 13:07:18
(permalink)
CakeAlexS
> I have posted several comments about your behavior on here, but you have posted far more rude, bullying, belittling comments towards others repeatedly..
(A)JB101 just use this thread as a typical example. I didn't post anything at all in this thread and yet you post a derogatory comment about me from nowhere. You are at risk of becoming delusional and obsessive. Please stop it's not good for your health or for mine.
dubdisciple
I don't always agree with his methods or how he interacts but it is no more my job to police him than it is his job to police others.
+1
(B)I have no right to be forum police with anybody, I can only guide people (as they can guide me).
So JB101 please adopt this method towards me, you are NOT the forum police either. There was no need for that first comment of yours, I wasn't even in this thread, and now you are (of course) at full scale war with me for some reason. As I said I get it, you dislike me and my methods. Now please move on....
And Keni I must apologise for this hijacking of your thread. Sorry...
Sorry, Keni, just wanted to answer these points. (A) My comment was to Keni about his altered writing style. If I am delusional, then it is a delusion shared by many according to the contents of my P.M. inbox. As for obsessive - check you post count, hours of posting etc., including, sadly, Christmas Day. (B) I am not being "Forum Police", just attempting to "guide" one single, argumentative member, who feels the need to argue with and belittle MANY people on here. Your constant use of phrases like "full scale war" tell me much about your state of mind. I will move on when you do.. Cheers.
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mettelus
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 13:10:49
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Eesh... I hope you two don't live anywhere close to each other... 
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Anderton
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 13:24:05
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dubdisciple
I have had a couple of not so good moments with [edit - insert name of any one of a number of human beings here] but I do realize he is trying to help. Maybe that enthusiasm goes over the top, but the intentions are good. I don't always agree with his methods or how he interacts but it is no more my job to police him than it is his job to police others. I think you take it all as a package with him and filter what you cannot tolerate without tossing the baby out with the bath.
This is great advice for dealing with people in general. I have a friend who is, shall we say, somewhat difficult to deal with. But, he has a truly warm heart, and we all have our demons. I accept him for who he is, and we have a very good relationship because he knows he can be himself and I won't be constantly judging him. Although that doesn't eliminate the part that's difficult to deal with, it makes it much easier for the truly warm heart to surface...which is what's really at the core of his personality. Zoom out, and it's clear Alex is trying to help, albeit with a style that can be abrasive. However, to me that's preferable to someone who has a style that can be abrasive but is not at all interested in being helpful. Furthermore, the "text only" trap is always in play, which makes it difficult to see the true personality behind the words.
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lawp
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 13:56:44
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I for one welcome our new qa overlord
sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
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brian brock
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 14:26:13
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X3 has a lot of problems with backwards-compatibility of this sort. By this sort, I mean that new functions will not necessarily behave well in projects from before those functions existed.
Another one is that the track-color-follows-bus feature did not work correctly in pre-X3 projects (I have not tried it in X3d).
All features from the previous versions are fine in X3, as far as I can tell, but new features will often have problems.
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Anderton
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 14:28:36
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brian brock
X3 has a lot of problems with backwards-compatibility of this sort. By this sort, I mean that new functions will not necessarily behave well in projects from before those functions existed.
Another one is that the track-color-follows-bus feature did not work correctly in pre-X3 projects (I have not tried it in X3d).
All features from the previous versions are fine in X3, as far as I can tell, but new features will often have problems.
Yes. While it's considerate that Cakewalk will let you open new projects in older versions (many programs lock you out of doing that), all bets are off as to compatibility of newer features.
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Splat
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Re: Default PC Plugins When Opening Pre-X Projects (Recipe)
2013/12/28 14:29:29
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Anderton
Zoom out, and it's clear Alex is trying to help, albeit with a style that can be abrasive. However, to me that's preferable to someone who has a style that can be abrasive but is not at all interested in being helpful. Furthermore, the "text only" trap is always in play, which makes it difficult to see the true personality behind the words.
Amen to that, thankyou. I suspect if you actually met me you wouldn't even recognise me. I would add I'm actually trying to be perfectly polite when trying to identify bugs, I just have to keep it level headed (hence the "robot" persona which was brilliantly written). Occasionally I got a little frustrated as I've asked for the same thing several times and not got any feedback, I would say that is only human. There are other threads where I'm happy to chat and post silly stuff... that's just the way I am. Not much different from the rest of us I would dare to say. > If I am delusional, then it is a delusion shared by many according to the contents of my P.M. inbox. Thankyou, You have made your point now several times, you don't like me or my methods, and now you are saying others don't like me or my methods (at least it's a new angle). In fact I am a such terrible person I've probably killed several children whilst troubleshooting Sonar bugs. I understand now, you've said this a zillion times. Now have you finished? .... Now onto Sonar 8.x projects....
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