TStranger
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Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
Hey All,
Re: Loud Digital Noise Over-Rides Sonar Sound Periodically
I have launched a new Dell XPS 8700 computer to replace my old one, exactly as the old one was applied (also a Dell i7 series), interfaced via USB 2 to an existing MOTU 828 mk 3 Hybrid. Now that I have installed and am working in X3, periodically a loud digital noise will over-ride my Sonar x3 sound and bleep and whirr and make all kinds of digital racket until I pull up Preferences/Audio and start to mess with the driver sound and change the Time Clock settings in the MOTU to internal (may not be related to the noise at all), and I can stop the noise - till the next time.
The noise happens about once every 10 minutes to once every half hour and will run for 2 or 3 minutes and stop. It appears to be more frequent when I am working with new programs or changing plug-in settings. I have shut off all system tasks and updates and virus software, other sound cards and drivers, and online backup systems and watched the Task Manager/System Monitor to see what software is running when this noise starts up.
I can find nothing which seems to be causing this. Chasing this for days. 8(
Any help would be appreciated.
TS _________________________ Dell 4th Gen i7 12Gigram Win 8.1 (x64) - MOTU 828 MkIII Firewire 800 - Akai MPK49 Sonar X3c Producer (64) - SoundForge Pro 10c Guitar Rig Pro 5.2 - Dimension Pro 1.5 - iZotope Alloy Nectar Ozone 1970 Gibson L5 - Taylor Custom GS - PRS Hollowbody II - Surh Strat and Tele - PRS 305 - 1968 Fender Tele
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fireberd
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/06 18:55:56
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☄ Helpfulby TStranger 2013/11/06 21:31:25
Did you turn off System Sounds? and disable the Network connection? That is all I've done in both Win 7 and Win 8.1 to prevent interference.
I don't know what else Microsoft or Dell has included on that new PC. I think Skype is installed on some, make sure you disable that.
"GCSG Productions" Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors, Ozone 5, Studio One 4.1 ISRC Registered Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
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haydn12
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/06 20:34:59
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Do you have a cell phone by your soundcard? My cell phone interferes with mine if too close.
Jim
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TStranger
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/06 21:33:27
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fireberd
Did you turn off System Sounds? and disable the Network connection? That is all I've done in both Win 7 and Win 8.1 to prevent interference.
I don't know what else Microsoft or Dell has included on that new PC. I think Skype is installed on some, make sure you disable that.
Turned off System Sounds, we'll see how that impacts the noise. I had routed system sounds to a separate device and away from my MOTU, but that still could cause trouble. And yeah, no Skype. Oddly I have not hear the sound all day today???? Thanks!
TS _________________________ Dell 4th Gen i7 12Gigram Win 8.1 (x64) - MOTU 828 MkIII Firewire 800 - Akai MPK49 Sonar X3c Producer (64) - SoundForge Pro 10c Guitar Rig Pro 5.2 - Dimension Pro 1.5 - iZotope Alloy Nectar Ozone 1970 Gibson L5 - Taylor Custom GS - PRS Hollowbody II - Surh Strat and Tele - PRS 305 - 1968 Fender Tele
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TStranger
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/06 21:34:55
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haydn12
Do you have a cell phone by your soundcard? My cell phone interferes with mine if too close.
Jim
Oh yeah Jim thanks, I make sure that my cell phones are in airplane mode when recording. LOL!! They can cause trouble. This is internally generated and LOUD, man. Grabs ahold of my MOTU sound and will not let go.
TS _________________________ Dell 4th Gen i7 12Gigram Win 8.1 (x64) - MOTU 828 MkIII Firewire 800 - Akai MPK49 Sonar X3c Producer (64) - SoundForge Pro 10c Guitar Rig Pro 5.2 - Dimension Pro 1.5 - iZotope Alloy Nectar Ozone 1970 Gibson L5 - Taylor Custom GS - PRS Hollowbody II - Surh Strat and Tele - PRS 305 - 1968 Fender Tele
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TStranger
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/09 21:12:46
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Well rats, I thought I had fixed it by updating the MOTU 828 mk III Hybrid firmware. The noise held off for 2 whole hours. But then it came roaring back just now. It appears to affect ONLY the analog inputs from the 828 mkIII and not the MIDI instruments which play fine behind the noise. The noise totally corrupts audio inputs from the 828 mk III. Until I can get to the ASIO Panel and fiddle with it, and that ceases the noise - until next time. TS
post edited by TStranger - 2013/11/09 21:53:07
TS _________________________ Dell 4th Gen i7 12Gigram Win 8.1 (x64) - MOTU 828 MkIII Firewire 800 - Akai MPK49 Sonar X3c Producer (64) - SoundForge Pro 10c Guitar Rig Pro 5.2 - Dimension Pro 1.5 - iZotope Alloy Nectar Ozone 1970 Gibson L5 - Taylor Custom GS - PRS Hollowbody II - Surh Strat and Tele - PRS 305 - 1968 Fender Tele
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Cactus Music
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/09 23:06:48
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I guess first you would have to determine if this is the interface ( drivers) or the actual computer that the noise originates from. And the only way to do that is to beg or borrow a different interface. My son had a top of the line Dell Laptop that he fought with for months and found the problem was coming from the BIOS and could not be fixed. Have you ran The DPCLAT test ap? http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
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TStranger
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/10 00:04:25
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Thanks Cactus, I used this interface with no problem with my last computer which I removed last week, and did not really change anything on the interface, so I believe that it is coming from the new computer, and since the 828 is inputting the analog voice and guitar, but the MIDI is separate USB directly to Sonar X3 and remains uncorrupted, and since the interface worked fine with my last computer, I would venture to say it is some kind of USB manager issue inside the new computer, or some kind of clock/word issue inside of Sonar. Not hardware or compatibility, because the sound is excellent when this is not there, but when it kicks in, and it does seem to be on some sort of schedule, it corrupts the sound infeed from the MOTU via the USB port. Ran the latency checker and between this being a Gen 4 i7 and the speed of the MOTU, it came out very tight, with the latency checker commenting that it should stream real time with no dropouts. When the degradation came on tonight, I went to the active program folder and started disabling every non-essential program running in the shell that I could. Nothing would abate the corruption of the MOTU USB feed. This appears to be in Sonar. The only thing that does stop it, is to open the Edit\preferences\Audo Device\Audio Driver option in Sonar, and fiddle with anything and save it. Then exit preferences and the sound is restored, almost like the Edit\Preferences\Adio Device.... function in Sonar disrupts this process. *shrug TS
post edited by TStranger - 2013/11/10 00:08:28
TS _________________________ Dell 4th Gen i7 12Gigram Win 8.1 (x64) - MOTU 828 MkIII Firewire 800 - Akai MPK49 Sonar X3c Producer (64) - SoundForge Pro 10c Guitar Rig Pro 5.2 - Dimension Pro 1.5 - iZotope Alloy Nectar Ozone 1970 Gibson L5 - Taylor Custom GS - PRS Hollowbody II - Surh Strat and Tele - PRS 305 - 1968 Fender Tele
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fireberd
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/10 06:51:16
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☄ Helpfulby TStranger 2013/11/10 15:34:48
There are many audio devices (including some PC sound devices) that require Windows 8.1 specific drivers. Devices that worked in Windows 7 or Windows 8 do not work or work properly in Windows 8.1 without the updates.
Roland, for example, had to issue Windows 8.1 specific drivers for their devices. I have a Roland Octa-Capture and had to have the new 8.1 driver.
I do support on the Windows 8 forum and we've seen several with audio problems (along with other hardware problems - mostly with older hardware not current hardware as Microsoft does not support some older PC hardware in Windows 8.1 that was supported in Windows 8).
"GCSG Productions" Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors, Ozone 5, Studio One 4.1 ISRC Registered Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
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TStranger
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/10 11:44:16
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Good point fireberd, since with the new computer - I went from Windows 7 to Windows 8.1. I will hit the MOTU sites then. I downloaded the most recent driver released Aug 20, 2013. But will press inside the user community and see if anyone with the 828 mk III Hybrid and 8.1 are having similar issues. TS
post edited by TStranger - 2013/11/10 11:49:40
TS _________________________ Dell 4th Gen i7 12Gigram Win 8.1 (x64) - MOTU 828 MkIII Firewire 800 - Akai MPK49 Sonar X3c Producer (64) - SoundForge Pro 10c Guitar Rig Pro 5.2 - Dimension Pro 1.5 - iZotope Alloy Nectar Ozone 1970 Gibson L5 - Taylor Custom GS - PRS Hollowbody II - Surh Strat and Tele - PRS 305 - 1968 Fender Tele
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TStranger
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/10 13:11:24
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What I found today is, all I have to do is open Preferences, not even change a thing, and hit Apply and Close, and the sound degradation is gone. So it is something which drifts out of its established control setting inside Sonar. I went into \Preferences\Audio\Devices inside of Sonar and disabled unused Input Drivers: And that did not stop the problem either I also tried the "Reset MIDI and Audio" quick button on the header shortcut panel, no dice on that either. TS
post edited by TStranger - 2013/11/10 17:07:04
TS _________________________ Dell 4th Gen i7 12Gigram Win 8.1 (x64) - MOTU 828 MkIII Firewire 800 - Akai MPK49 Sonar X3c Producer (64) - SoundForge Pro 10c Guitar Rig Pro 5.2 - Dimension Pro 1.5 - iZotope Alloy Nectar Ozone 1970 Gibson L5 - Taylor Custom GS - PRS Hollowbody II - Surh Strat and Tele - PRS 305 - 1968 Fender Tele
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TStranger
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/10 15:25:00
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OK, no, the sound did it again. I make a change and it sits dormant for 3 hours and I think I have it fixed, and then it starts again. 
post edited by TStranger - 2013/11/10 15:52:09
TS _________________________ Dell 4th Gen i7 12Gigram Win 8.1 (x64) - MOTU 828 MkIII Firewire 800 - Akai MPK49 Sonar X3c Producer (64) - SoundForge Pro 10c Guitar Rig Pro 5.2 - Dimension Pro 1.5 - iZotope Alloy Nectar Ozone 1970 Gibson L5 - Taylor Custom GS - PRS Hollowbody II - Surh Strat and Tele - PRS 305 - 1968 Fender Tele
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TStranger
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/12 18:30:45
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So I spoke with MOTU and the following applies to this sudden noise with the Analog ASIO drivers in Sonar. 1. The MOTU unit with this set of drivers never did this with the old computer in Reaper 2. The sound is not reproducible by using these ASIO drivers and inputs in stand alone Guitar Pro 5.2 So that tells me it is not the computer, nor the USB's (using the correct 2.0 USB), nor Windows 8.1, nor 828 Mk III, nor the ASIO drivers, nor Guitar Rig Pro 5.2. They have all functioned fine independently. The sound only crops up when I use all these things through Sonar X3c. And given that I can stop the sound simply by opening the preferences and hitting the "apply" button... ....this tells me that Sonar X3c has an incompatibility issue with ASIO drivers, by initiating a periodic routine which corrupts them in the configuration setup, which is easily re-initiated by simply running preferences. Not Solved, but I will highlight this problem to Cakewalk.  TS
TS _________________________ Dell 4th Gen i7 12Gigram Win 8.1 (x64) - MOTU 828 MkIII Firewire 800 - Akai MPK49 Sonar X3c Producer (64) - SoundForge Pro 10c Guitar Rig Pro 5.2 - Dimension Pro 1.5 - iZotope Alloy Nectar Ozone 1970 Gibson L5 - Taylor Custom GS - PRS Hollowbody II - Surh Strat and Tele - PRS 305 - 1968 Fender Tele
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gustabo
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/12 20:41:30
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☄ Helpfulby TStranger 2013/11/12 21:36:47
New MOTU drivers were released today, don't remember what it addresses though.
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fireberd
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/13 06:56:25
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this tells me that Sonar X3c has an incompatibility issue with ASIO drivers, by initiating a periodic routine which corrupts them in the configuration setup, which is easily re-initiated by simply running preferences.
Not ALL hardware has this problem. Neither my Roland Octa-Capture or my MAudio Fastrack Ultra 8R have this problem in X3c 64 bit - either in Windows 7 64 bit or Windows 8 64 bit.
post edited by fireberd - 2013/11/13 06:57:30
"GCSG Productions" Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors, Ozone 5, Studio One 4.1 ISRC Registered Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
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TStranger
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/13 10:50:11
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fireberd
Not ALL hardware has this problem. Neither my Roland Octa-Capture or my MAudio Fastrack Ultra 8R have this problem in X3c 64 bit - either in Windows 7 64 bit or Windows 8 64 bit.
This is what makes this so hard to diagnose. The 828 and ASIO drivers work fine through everything else, no scheduled event signal corruption. It is only when I use Sonar when this happens. And I stop the degradation with merely two Sonar menu clicks. Since everything else functions fine on its own, and the degradation can be solved with a Sonar only action, this leads me still to thinking towards Sonar. Nonetheless, I continue to pursue this with MOTU who is being very responsive and informative, usually interacting with me twice a day. I made a copy of the sound and sent it to them - which very much sounds like a handshake sync request between two devices (not exactly but somewhat like the old 'dial up modem' sound). My thought is that the drivers are dropping out and attempting a re-sync which is not happening until I hit Preferences-Apply in Sonar for some reason???? TS
post edited by TStranger - 2013/11/16 18:51:23
TS _________________________ Dell 4th Gen i7 12Gigram Win 8.1 (x64) - MOTU 828 MkIII Firewire 800 - Akai MPK49 Sonar X3c Producer (64) - SoundForge Pro 10c Guitar Rig Pro 5.2 - Dimension Pro 1.5 - iZotope Alloy Nectar Ozone 1970 Gibson L5 - Taylor Custom GS - PRS Hollowbody II - Surh Strat and Tele - PRS 305 - 1968 Fender Tele
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TStranger
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/19 23:54:44
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Well I worked with the MOTU techs, and we were unable to produce a solution to the dropout of the Analog ASIO driven tracks. So, I installed another DAW and have been monitoring its use of the same ASIO drivers and have two Analog tracks configured in exactly the same fashion as my Sonar X3c analog tracks and so far tonight no noise coming through this other DAW. I think this is a case of Sonar X3c dropping the integrity of the ASIO drivers, triggered by some event which happens every 10 minutes to 1 hour. The MOTU works fine with Reaper DAW and direct to Dimension Pro, or Guitar Rig 5.2. So I think this is Sonar unfortunately. 
TS _________________________ Dell 4th Gen i7 12Gigram Win 8.1 (x64) - MOTU 828 MkIII Firewire 800 - Akai MPK49 Sonar X3c Producer (64) - SoundForge Pro 10c Guitar Rig Pro 5.2 - Dimension Pro 1.5 - iZotope Alloy Nectar Ozone 1970 Gibson L5 - Taylor Custom GS - PRS Hollowbody II - Surh Strat and Tele - PRS 305 - 1968 Fender Tele
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TStranger
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/20 01:41:27
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Not getting any response from Cakewalk Tech Support either on this. I have filed two support requests and nothing, except confirmation of filing emails. I have already had over 10 exchanges with MOTU in that same time.
post edited by TStranger - 2013/11/23 20:57:48
TS _________________________ Dell 4th Gen i7 12Gigram Win 8.1 (x64) - MOTU 828 MkIII Firewire 800 - Akai MPK49 Sonar X3c Producer (64) - SoundForge Pro 10c Guitar Rig Pro 5.2 - Dimension Pro 1.5 - iZotope Alloy Nectar Ozone 1970 Gibson L5 - Taylor Custom GS - PRS Hollowbody II - Surh Strat and Tele - PRS 305 - 1968 Fender Tele
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TStranger
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/24 21:53:26
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OK, final resolution - I guess - or defacto resolution. LOL!! Today when I got back from a business trip, I switched on my studio and noticed that the MOTU 828 Mk III Hybrid control screen no longer worked and there were no sounds coming through ASIO driver driven functionality at all. After a while I determined that the 828 was malfunctioning. So, I went out and bought a PCI-e short slot Firewire 6 pin adapter and installed it into the Dell XPS 8700 - then hooked up my old MOTU 828 Mk III Firewire unit. The sound is good, solid and stable now on that unit. I will send the 828 Mk III Hybrid back into MOTU for repair. Unfortunately, I bought this on eBay so I have no warrantee. More and more I am figuring out, that if you buy an I/O on eBay used, it is often being sold for having a malfunction. I am not sure a $100 discount off price is worth the risk of getting a malfunctioning or quirky interface. Only new ones for me from now on. Resolved, I guess. At the very least I have my studio back. TS 
TS _________________________ Dell 4th Gen i7 12Gigram Win 8.1 (x64) - MOTU 828 MkIII Firewire 800 - Akai MPK49 Sonar X3c Producer (64) - SoundForge Pro 10c Guitar Rig Pro 5.2 - Dimension Pro 1.5 - iZotope Alloy Nectar Ozone 1970 Gibson L5 - Taylor Custom GS - PRS Hollowbody II - Surh Strat and Tele - PRS 305 - 1968 Fender Tele
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TStranger
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Re: Dell XPS 8700 to MOTU 828 Mk 3 Hybrid Noise
2013/11/25 22:51:56
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☼ Best Answerby TStranger 2013/11/25 23:01:51
Good News!! MOTU agreed to repair my new eBay purchased MOTU 828 Mk III under warranty. I shipped it back in today. In the meantime I am ordering a PCI-e dual processor (TI Chip) Firewire 800 card for the 828 Mk III Hybrid when it returns. This will ensure that I have the fastest and most compatible interface duplex signal possible. I love the MOTU support, and I love the 828 series, as I have been using it since 2001. It is powerful, routing flexible and usually reliable. Conclusions in this: - Firewire 400 (6 pin) performs superior to USB 2.0 - both the duplex capability and the larger bandwidth make for a better overall experience with less problems interfacing to an I/O device. I would recommend that users go to the expense of inserting a Firewire 400 (or 800) card into their machine over using resident USB 2.0 - as the performance is perceptively superior now that I have used both. My interim rig, using a temporary Firewire 400 PCI-e card is actually performing much more stable and clear.
- The USB 2.0 drivers and the MOTU Hybrid did not seem to get along well. My 828 mk III would lose driver sync when the PC screen saver kicked in, or at random times while working - it usually took an hour or two, but would always happen, forcing me to reboot my MOTU and my computer at least once with each use.
- Older or no-name resident Firewire 400 chipsets do not perform well with the MOTU 828 series. I would replace an old resident Firewire 400 slot with a new PCI-e dual processor (TI chipset) insert board when interfacing to any Firewire devices. Use Firewire 800 and step it down to a 6-pin via an adapter cable, or by having a dual standard card - if you can.
TS 
post edited by TStranger - 2013/11/25 23:04:09
TS _________________________ Dell 4th Gen i7 12Gigram Win 8.1 (x64) - MOTU 828 MkIII Firewire 800 - Akai MPK49 Sonar X3c Producer (64) - SoundForge Pro 10c Guitar Rig Pro 5.2 - Dimension Pro 1.5 - iZotope Alloy Nectar Ozone 1970 Gibson L5 - Taylor Custom GS - PRS Hollowbody II - Surh Strat and Tele - PRS 305 - 1968 Fender Tele
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