ampfixer
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Develop OS DAW
How many problems would be eliminated if Sonar had a dedicated OS that was distributed with the product. You could have a dual boot option to launch Windows or Sonar. Sonar would have its own partition and an OS completely optimized for DAW operations. Back in the 386 - 486 days, games came this way. When you ran them they took over the computer until you were finished.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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mudgel
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/05/30 23:13:52
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Interesting. This isn't the first time I've heard this idea floated on this forum.
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KPerry
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/05/31 02:11:42
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Except...drivers depend on Windows functionality, VSTs depend on Windows functionality, registration often requires internet connectivity so a browser/http support would need to be built in, video support leverages Microsoft's codec subsystem. And so on.
A DAW OS without significant proportions of Windows (or OS X similarly) would provide very limited functionality for software and hardware we already use and would want to use in the future. So it's not really viable.
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Brando
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/06/02 10:01:54
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KPerry Except...drivers depend on Windows functionality, VSTs depend on Windows functionality, registration often requires internet connectivity so a browser/http support would need to be built in, video support leverages Microsoft's codec subsystem. And so on.
A DAW OS without significant proportions of Windows (or OS X similarly) would provide very limited functionality for software and hardware we already use and would want to use in the future. So it's not really viable.
I wonder though - with the sites focussing on Windows tweaks for DAWS - which are essentially guides to shutting down unwanted/unnecessary apps and processes - how far could you go? Could a standard Windows 8.1 (for example) be stripped down enough to make a significant improvement in performance for most users? In the worst case, a user could be dual-booting from his regular win8.1 to SONAR with its own (stripped) 8.1. For sure you could eliminate a ton of crud, but would the performance improvement warrant it? It would certainly allow standardization and would then help to eliminate performance problems currently experienced by users of unoptimized systems.
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mudgel
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/06/02 10:05:45
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From a standard Win 8.1 installation I've tried running with as few services running as possible and it didn't make the slightest bit of difference to the way or speed or stability with which Sonar ran.
Outside of Sonar it didn't change DPC latency either.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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AT
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/06/02 10:22:57
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Although I'm not a programmer and I like the idea of a dual-boot in theory, we really don't need the cycles at this point (unlike old 386/486 computers). What we need is stability, which has less to do w/ the OS than how the OS works w/ your individual hardware. So the best answer is a SONAR computer w/ a stripped down versions of Windows. You can get Jim etc. to make you one of those, as much as you can afford, and they'll test your software integration, too.
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BobF
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/06/02 10:25:54
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Win8.1 runs well enough for me that I'm not inclined to dive into the world of tweaks. As far as a dedicated DAW operating environment goes? Well, there have been similar things done in the past that proved infeasible over the long haul. X-Windows stations, p-machines, LISP machines, even java machines. Being able to keep up with hardware is the challenge in niche markets like ours. The only ones of the above that enjoyed any financial success were those in academic and military applications where taxpayers subsidized the cost. From my perspective, we seem to be on an excellent trajectory for price/performance. Think about how much more we're able to do today than we could 5 or even 3 years ago. Imagine the next 3 to 5. I haven't put pencil to paper on this, but I don't see any real ROI for the idea.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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pwalpwal
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/06/02 10:26:43
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BobF
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/06/02 10:30:50
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There was a similar *nix based post a day or two ago. Looks really cool for all multimedia except audio because of driver support. It's one I'll be watching
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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pwalpwal
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/06/02 10:36:11
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*nix is ok for email & internetty standard stuff but **** for games and none of my expensive vsts will work i gave some ardour-optimised distro a good thrashing 4 or 5 years ago, came back to windows...
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KPerry
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/06/02 10:46:20
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Maybe the odd service might if it's badly written, but I wouldn't expect it to make a significant difference either.
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pwalpwal
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/06/02 11:11:16
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and my printer wouldn't work/wasn't recognised... i expect there's a deliberate effort by some big commercial hw manufacturers/resellers to actively not support free stuff /conspiracy
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CedricM
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/06/05 02:48:20
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I don't think you have any idea what the development and maintenance of an OS means, plus Windows is always the best scapegoat when problems can arise from many sources, including hardware, badly behaving plugin and badly configured / non maintained systems. Linux, the most contributed to OS, barely has adequate drivers offering after decades.
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Brando
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/06/05 12:58:07
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CedricM I don't think you have any idea what the development and maintenance of an OS means, plus Windows is always the best scapegoat when problems can arise from many sources, including hardware, badly behaving plugin and badly configured / non maintained systems. Linux, the most contributed to OS, barely has adequate drivers offering after decades.
Who is your post directed at? A statement like "I don't think you have any idea ...."assumes a lot, A lot of very talented people here with a range of talents and day jobs. The idea of a feature request sub-forum, to me is a chance to blue sky - help to shape a vision for Sonar down the road. The OP didn't specify Linux. I suggested maybe one approach to this would be to include a stripped windows - dedicated for daw use. just food for thought, but in my opinion this is a good conversation to have, and hopefully Cake is considering all of these types of ideas , even if they are discarding them now - they might have value later (when circumstances/business needs change) or might lead to other ideas. just my 2 cents.
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ampfixer
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/06/06 15:21:33
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Brando, you and I have the exact same view on the purpose of this forum. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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synkrotron
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/06/06 15:48:59
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There are devices out there that use their own OS, so why not a DAW?
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Kylotan
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/06/14 17:19:25
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ampfixer How many problems would be eliminated if Sonar had a dedicated OS that was distributed with the product. You could have a dual boot option to launch Windows or Sonar. Sonar would have its own partition and an OS completely optimized for DAW operations. They would basically have to write their own version of Windows. Not likely to happen. Then they'd have to get all the hardware manufacturers to support it. Equally unlikely to happen. The nearest thing to this that would be practical would be for them to use a version of Linux, but since Linux is the worst mainstream OS for audio that would be a bad choice. It would also take ages to rewrite Sonar to work on both platforms.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/06/14 18:42:41
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All "dedicated" boxes seem to be written on Linux nowadays. Check the "Steam Machine". > but since Linux is the worst mainstream OS for audio that would be a bad choice. That's a heck of a statement, "worst" meaning? I totally disagree the audio engine is probably the best, drivers for it are pretty good nowadays. It has the worst support perhaps but DAW's for Linux are popping up all over the place for the reason I've just explained. I don't see any point in creating an OS, an existing stripped down OS is what you need. Linux is perfect for the job the kernel can be recompiled to more or less suit anything. You could strip down Windows but you still have the HAL to contend with, and Windows fundamentally flawed design for audio (which apparently might get fixed in Windows 10 one day).
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/14 18:52:01
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kevinwal
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Re: Develop OS DAW
2015/06/16 14:05:19
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Microsoft offers a product called Windows Embedded that allows OEM's to configure an OS that does just what the OP is asking for. It's used for cash registers, ATM machines and other special purpose devices that don't require the complete user experience though it can also add those elements too. I wouldn't be surprised if your friendly neighborhood DAW builder were able to build you such a beast.
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