Dave Modisette
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Did my first session sans mixer today.
I've always had a mixer within arms reach but since I only record a single artist or at most a few people at a time, I had to evaluate why I still use one. So last night, I unplugged all the wires and rolled the side cart with the mixer to the other side of the control room.
The initial panic of not having a master fader to grab in case of an open mic led to feedback was a bit hard to get over but I made it through a six hour session today. I still found myself wanting to retreat back to a familiar environment but with a half dozen really decent pres available, why do that?
I did run into a situation where it would have been nice to have a headphone mix available to give the guitarist sitting with me a "more me" mix instead of listening off of the main mix so I'm thinking maybe a Presonus Central Station would be nice. That would simplify a "talk back" mic, headphone mixes in the control room and give me a master volume knob to turn down when I'm unplugging something.
I had the Mixer app from my RME displayed on one of my monitors so master volume duties was somewhat covered via software. Maybe instead of laying all that dough out for a Monitor control station, maybe a single headphone mix amp (like a Rolls PM50S) and some sort of passive volume control (like a TC Electronics Level Pilot)?
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Did my first session sans mixer today.
2014/01/25 19:40:01
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Do you have any unused outputs on your I/O? My MOTUs and the Cue Mix can send out 4 unique monitor mixes and I have lots of extra outputs to use. I always figured RME had the same sort of options.
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Dave Modisette
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Re: Did my first session sans mixer today.
2014/01/25 22:41:20
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Oh yeah, I've got outputs to spare. Sixteen mono outs. I've got ways to make individual output mixes. The RME Mixer app makes that quite easy. I had a Behringer 4 channel monitor amp here in the control room but it crapped out. I have a 6 output Furman stereo headphone amp in the iso booth. I'm set there but recording happens where it happens if you know what I mean.
I'm really thinking that individual units is the way I want to go. It allows me to build up as I need it and if one unit craps out, I don't lose four possible headphone outputs.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Did my first session sans mixer today.
2014/01/26 08:46:50
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I've got an old Mackie headphone mixer with a monitor matrix that makes it easy to combine discreet outputs with Cuemix (and honestly I rarely use Cuemix now that I round trip through the DAW) but that Mackie has a rough and noisy sound. That is probably why they discontinued it. I have two other cheap headphone amps. One is Behringer 4 banger and one is a 6 Channel unit I made myself. The home made one sounds best. I also have a couple dozen 25' headphone extension cords because as you say; it happens where it happens. It seems to me that many of the satellite mixer units cost as much as the cheap multi channel headphone amps so I am inclined to just use several cheap multi channel headphone amps. I don't see any need for placing mix controls out with the musicians as it seems for me that you can anticipate most of their needs or preferences and once you are set up that consistency has it's merit. Another idea is that if you place the control of the monitor mix in the proximity of the musicians they may or may not have the experience to make useful decisions. From my experience with live mixing I have learned that sometimes the person who wants more me isn't playing with the band because they can't hear the rest of the band and so you have to coax them into listening to the whole. I like being able to know what the musicians are hearing so I can make helpful adjustments. For example; if the bass player is diverging from the drums and requests more bass this may or may not be a useful solution. It may be that the bass player needs more kick and less bass in their monitors. I like to listen and try to help make it work. That's just an opinion and an anecdote. As you know there are many choices and there is something to cater to every desire. Good luck shopping!!! :-) best regards, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2014/01/26 08:47:57
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AT
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Re: Did my first session sans mixer today.
2014/01/26 10:29:51
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The TC level pilot is pretty darn good. One of the big studio's I use had one in their B room. When the SSL went out in A, he used the TC in there just fine. @
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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Dave Modisette
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Re: Did my first session sans mixer today.
2014/01/26 13:07:09
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Thanks for the different ways at looking at this. I think I'm going to buy one of those Rolls units and try it out. Also the TCE Level Pilot. Short money and if they don't sound good, I'll pack them back up and send them back after a weeks test.
I'm going to try to use my old Soundcraft mixer for a OTB mix to see if it pleasantly surprises me or if it just another hyped opinion.
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Dave Modisette
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Re: Did my first session sans mixer today.
2014/01/26 19:54:20
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The clouds parted and I had a revelation....
Since I still have a mixer and the mixer has a headphone jack, I can simply patch into my soundcard outputs and run a stereo pair or even more to the mixer and use that. Saving me $50 to use on sexier stuff than another headphone amp.
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bitflipper
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Re: Did my first session sans mixer today.
2014/01/26 21:19:11
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Going mixerless is kinda liberating, isn't it? In the beginning the lack of tactile faders and buttons and knobs was weird, but I got over it pretty quickly when I realized that my in-the-box mixes were the best I'd ever done. I still miss having one sometimes, especially when I have guest instrumentalists to plug in, or need headphones for more than 1 or 2 people. Or when a civilian visits, looks around and says "I thought you said you had a studio. I just see a computer."
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Dave Modisette
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Re: Did my first session sans mixer today.
2014/01/26 22:43:17
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bitflipper Going mixerless is kinda liberating, isn't it? In the beginning the lack of tactile faders and buttons and knobs was weird, but I got over it pretty quickly when I realized that my in-the-box mixes were the best I'd ever done. I still miss having one sometimes, especially when I have guest instrumentalists to plug in, or need headphones for more than 1 or 2 people. Or when a civilian visits, looks around and says "I thought you said you had a studio. I just see a computer."
Oh, I still have my Mackie MCU and two extenders. Flying faders moving around during a mix definitely impresses some of the folks that come into my studio. For the longest time, my mixer was the only preamps that I had available. As I collected more (and better) preamps, it has become a glorified volume control and a place to plug in things that I only want to hear in real time without turning the computer on. I haven't used it for summing a mix in a long time since my Alesis ADAT days. Like I mentioned before, I might use it for summing a mix out of the box just to see if it really makes any difference like some of the pros claim.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Did my first session sans mixer today.
2014/01/26 23:03:47
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First time I ever recorded in a studio that had switched to an ADAT system, the guitar player was kinda freaked about the fact the Reel to reels were sitting idle, He said what kind of studio is this, nothings turning ,, So the engineer fired up the 2 track and said, "there, does that make you feel better?" The guitar player got back to work.. So with that in mind I keep all my old gear stacked and sitting around in a workman like way so that people feel comfortable. Just make sure the lights still work..
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mixmkr
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Re: Did my first session sans mixer today.
2014/01/27 18:53:42
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I've used the Rolls "more me" mixer..but in live applications only.... and they work, but are a tad hissy. ART has the same thing, I believe. You send a stereo mix, and the adjust themselves against that mix. Some have two inputs... a line and a mic. I agree with Mike, unless you're dealing with experienced musicians, do the monitor mix for them and a pile of extension cables are OK, I'd think. Don't know your setup though. If you want to get a tad more flexible, the Behringer P16...the Aviom substitute, seems to be holding up in live situations, and for about $750 should give you all the flexibility you need. About as flexible as you'll ever need and the lowest price. I'd stay away from some of the other brands, as you're already buying outdated stuff...if you can find it. But used, is an option. In my setup, I use a [discontinued] Mackie mixer, that was geared specifically for headphone mixes. It has 4 inputs and a send, which the talent can adjust. I even use a reverb send on it, with a little unit the talent can adjust if they want as well. However, no one EVER touches it. I mean never because I think they're just more concerned with getting good takes and want to leave that stuff up to you. Otherwise a cheapie live sound, monitor mixer works too.
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mixmkr
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Re: Did my first session sans mixer today.
2014/01/27 19:03:00
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oh...and as for summing, I would not expect a mid budget mixer to "wake up" your mixes by summing in it. Some of the highend outboard gear....supposedly so. Otherwise I'd just bounce it down to a cassette!
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