Dim Pro Sustain

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OldNick
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2017/03/31 23:13:58 (permalink)

Dim Pro Sustain

I want to have a percussion track that will have low toms that, in the sample I want to use, have lovely long decays. But sometimes I want to do a "roll", yet keep the sustain. Trouble is that means either having very short notes or overlapping them, which gets messy. If I use short notes, I get a little run of staccato toms that sound almost comical and not at all like a set of big toms being thrashed about.
 
There is a Sust/Sost switch in Dim Pro, but that seems to make no difference. I tried using the EG, with a long sustain time of 6.5 seconds, but that did not work either. Sorfzando for instance has "pedal" one of which is Sustain and that does the trick, but I was just wondering...
 
Or do I have to work on the SFZ file?
 
Any advice appreciated

Nick
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#1

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    abacab
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    Re: Dim Pro Sustain 2017/04/01 22:50:24 (permalink)
    With a sampled percussion instrument, I believe you are most likely going to be working with a "one-shot" sample, rather than a sustained melodic tone.
     
    If your drum sample is of a short duration, adjusting the envelopes is not likely to extend the sustain time, due to the natural decay of the recorded sample. 
     
    The toms on the Dim Pro room kits sound natural to me, not staccato at all.  Maybe try some FX to bring out what you want to hear?
     
    Or check out the Cakewalk Studio Instruments SI Drums.  The "In Yo Face.prog" kit seems to have a fairly long sustain.

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    OldNick
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    Re: Dim Pro Sustain 2017/04/02 00:10:27 (permalink)
    HI. It's not the sample that is the trouble. It's Dim Pro or a setting I am missing in Dim Pro. I chose Sonor Hilite 2 U87-001.sfz as an example. It has a decay of maybe 2-3 seconds, especially in the lower registers.
     
    If I play it in Sforzando, with the Sustain pedal on, the drum plays its entire sample, even if the note event is very very short, just enough to trigger the note. So it can be arranged somehow.
     
    In Dim Pro, the drum sounds only as long as the note event keeps it going. So unless I use note events long enough to cover the full length of the drum's decay (and changes with the note#) I get the decay chopped off. Activating the sustain or using the EG do not seem to help, unless I am doing something wrong.
     
    Even in a drum roll of fast hits, unless you overlap the notes, which sucks up polyphony and is messy to work with, you get a staccato series of rattles, not a series of rapid drum hits with the sample staying alive until the next fast hit.

    Nick
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    abacab
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    Re: Dim Pro Sustain 2017/04/02 01:01:39 (permalink)
    Your explanation was clear.  I was able to duplicate your example.
     
    Just out of curiosity, why are you using Dim Pro for drums when you have Platinum, and could be using Addictive Drums instead?
     
    Back to your point, it seems that Dim Pro is responding to the MIDI note off event. and cutting of the sustain.
     
    I tried the same pattern with a Dim Pro drum patch in Rapture Session, and the drum kit performed correctly!

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    OldNick
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    Re: Dim Pro Sustain 2017/04/02 01:11:26 (permalink)
    Oh good it's not just me. And thanks for your efforts. In a couple of years  I may be able to return the favour!
     
    hmm...grits teeth...'cause I do not have Addictive Drums showing....anywhere I can find.
     
    OK. Weird about Dim Pro's behaviour and Raptor being OK.

    Nick
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    abacab
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    Re: Dim Pro Sustain 2017/04/02 03:05:00 (permalink)
    OldNick
     
    hmm...grits teeth...'cause I do not have Addictive Drums showing....anywhere I can find.



    To install AD2, you will need to go to the XLN website.  Your serial number is available in the Cakewalk Command Center.  It is an external install and so you will need to install the XLN installer from their website.  The good news is that SONAR Platinum includes three (3) ADpaks (XLN Drum kits of your choice).  Instructions are here ...
     
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013382/Addictive-Drums-2-Installation-Instructions
     

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    OldNick
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    Re: Dim Pro Sustain 2017/04/02 03:40:34 (permalink)
    Sorry yeah I should have said ASAP. I tried that. After much running about, I started to dl the stuff....1.8GB at 100KB/s = 5-odd hours...so I will try again when the Net is working better for me.

    Nick
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    abacab
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    Re: Dim Pro Sustain 2017/04/02 03:45:26 (permalink)
    OldNick
    Sorry yeah I should have said ASAP. I tried that. After much running about, I started to dl the stuff....1.8GB at 100KB/s = 5-odd hours...so I will try again when the Net is working better for me.




    Oh well, in that case start the download and go to bed.  It's well worth it!!!

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    OldNick
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    Re: Dim Pro Sustain 2017/04/02 03:48:21 (permalink)
    HAH! I would go to bed....except it's just time for lunch!
     
    Thanks for all your help again.

    Nick
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    abacab
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    Re: Dim Pro Sustain 2017/04/02 03:50:24 (permalink)
    No problem and good luck!  Get the beats rocking!

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    OldNick
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    Re: Dim Pro Sustain 2017/04/02 10:54:16 (permalink)
    Got it! Now the trouble is I have been "working" on it for 2 hours and I haven't actually used it for anything yet.
     
    I have never been a loop user, but here I can see ...ummm...potential? There is a beat called Opolopo--Machine and it drives me crazy when I use the Percussion set. Makes me think of Breaking Bad and I wonder.....
     
    I had to do some work about the place and feed the dogs, so I got a nice percussion set arranged, made some tweaks, turned Opolopo--Machine up on my system and just rocked along.
     
    Funny thing is, before I was trying a Piano font and started making this really moody, drifty piece (of music, that is) that would only support very subtle cymbal work and maybe a few tom infills...ya can't win.
     
    When  started writing, I had a Jupiter 6 (I sold it ...it was all about the lights and colour...the most luscious synth I have ever seen) and a Casio, because it had an 8-track MIDI recorder. My synth rack rose to four and I built a huge folding stand to handle them...and a 4-track tape recorder! Constantly bouncing, bouncing, bouncing like a bedroom scene from Debbie Does Dallas. (now you know how old I am)
     
    Now look at us.

    Nick
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    OldNick
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    Re: Dim Pro Sustain 2017/04/03 10:15:12 (permalink)
    Hey! They lied! I have been playing with these drums since 04:00 (now 16:15 here) and I'm not addicted at all!

    Nick
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    abacab
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    Re: Dim Pro Sustain 2017/04/03 14:36:53 (permalink)
    OldNick
    Hey! They lied! I have been playing with these drums since 04:00 (now 16:15 here) and I'm not addicted at all!




    I hear ya!  I just splurged on a AD2 custom pack yesterday that is on sale 50% off (today is the last day).  And I made sure to select Session Percussion.  That is a goody, for sure! 
     
    You can't buy this custom pack direct from XLN, but 3rd party retailers like Audio Deluxe and JRR Shop carry it.  Add to cart to see special price.
     
    JRR - $62.58
    https://www.jrrshop.com/xln-audio-addictive-drums-2-custom
     
    Audio Deluxe - $61.97
    https://www.audiodeluxe.com/products/xln-audio-addictive-drums-2-custom
     
    You get to pick 3 more ADpacks, 3 more MIDIpaks, and three additional kit pieces.
     
    Yup, look at us now, LOL!!!

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    OldNick
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    Re: Dim Pro Sustain 2017/04/03 23:49:56 (permalink)
    Yeah I got Session Percussion with AD2 when I picked my 3 adpacks. Stunning.
     
    I just grabbed 3 1/2 price drumsets this morning from XLN. This has got to stop!

    Nick
    Aced : Zither Mush (I no longer have ANY idea what this means)
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    abacab
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    Re: Dim Pro Sustain 2017/04/04 00:15:26 (permalink)
    Yup, it's addicting, I tell ya!!!

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    OldNick
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    Re: Dim Pro Sustain 2017/04/05 12:25:20 (permalink)
    I was wrong I said that Opolopo--Machine was the midi patch for Session Perc. It's Patrick Sietch. Stunning.

    Nick
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