musichoo
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Dim Pro user please respond.
Hi guys,
I know this thread should be posted in cakewalk's intrument thread but I think there is more traffic here in X1 thread and I would get more respond from X1 users (since all X1 users also have dim pro). I am a everday dim pro user and own DSF1-13 expansion, currently downloading the free strings package due to the X(you know what) upgrade.
Ok, here it goes. Here are my questions,
1. Are you a Dim Pro user?
2. How good is Dim Pro compare to other sampler player like kontact, etc?
3. Is it about Dim Pro receive some major upgrade/update?
4. What are the dim pro features that need to be improved or added? Multioutput? 4 outs or more? Effects? GUI sample mapping? SFZ easy to use or pain in the butt? ACT response? GUI way of switching on the piano pedal effect? ADSR type knob/slider control envelope
5. How about ability to other sample format?
6.How good is DSF expansion sound compare to the others?
Perhaps if we get enough responses the bakers will take notice and give us an improve Dim Pro VST?
Thanks for reading
Choo Shi-Hwei
Malaysia
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Loptec
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/09 04:32:18
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musichoo
Hi guys,
I know this thread should be posted in cakewalk's intrument thread but I think there is more traffic here in X1 thread and I would get more respond from X1 users (since all X1 users also have dim pro). I am a everday dim pro user and own DSF1-13 expansion, currently downloading the free strings package due to the X(you know what) upgrade.
Ok, here it goes. Here are my questions, I have to admit: I haven't used Dimension Pro much. I've tried it through to see what it's capable of and I've also done some research on the SFZ-format, so.. 1. Are you a Dim Pro user? ..Not really, no ;P 2. How good is Dim Pro compare to other sampler player like kontact, etc? The thing is that Dim Pro is more what's called a sample player. Kontakt is more than that, since you here got all the editing possibilities (and more) of a hardware sampler. To compare them wouldn't be fair. Maybe it would be better to compare it to Kontakt Player (wich is free by the way). In other words: Kontakt is superior to Dim Pro 3. Is it about Dim Pro receive some major upgrade/update? Sure, why not? :) What I'd really like to see first though is an easy to use but powerful SFZ-editor. This would open up nice possibilities with Dim Pro (and Rapture and SessionDrummer3) 4. What are the dim pro features that need to be improved or added? Multioutput? 4 outs or more? Effects? GUI sample mapping? SFZ easy to use or pain in the butt? ACT response? GUI way of switching on the piano pedal effect? ADSR type knob/slider control envelope About features.. I don't know. IMO it feels like it's ment to be more of a just-load-and-start-playing kind of instrument. Maybe multi outs would be nice, for the different elements, though :) About SFZ: I'm sure it's easy once you've learned. But I think more people would start using it if we got a nice SFZ-editor included with Sonar (since this format is used by most (if not all) of Sonars sample based VSTis) 5. How about ability to other sample format? Nah.. IMO I think they should just stick to SFZ. I'm sure this format's got some nice possibilities.. And with an editor the users could start making their own libraries (for all Sonar's sample based VSTis) and maybe start sharing them here or something..?) 6.How good is DSF expansion sound compare to the others? Didn't download it yet, but I've heard some really good things about it :)
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musichoo
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/09 10:16:23
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Thanks Loptec for your response.
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AT
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/09 12:42:51
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DimPro is pretty much a straight ahead synth compared to Kontact. There are some rhythmic presets, but not the same. Also it is only 4 different voices.
SFZ is a great, but text-based definition system. You can do a lot w/ it, like NI's scripting, but it is a lot of right-side brain work. The biggest flaw w/ Rapture/Dimpro etc. is the lack of a visual editing system. Of course, René said that this allowed flexibility and an ever-evolving system. However, I think most users would have prefered a scheme that was easy, point and click, rather than typing (or copying and pasting) for something as simple as note-range.
René left cakewalk, so I wouldn't look for any vast improvements, tho it has been a while since Cake released a new synth. Z3TA 2 was a nice improvement on the original. But who knows if Cake's other SFZ style synths will get a new member or upgrade.
I don't have the DFS, tho there are some demos and they are quite good.
Finally, DimPro and Rapture and the other SFZ synths cut through a mix. They are very clear (not necessarily clean) and work well against VA synths and many acoutically recorded stuff - electric guitars etc. It is like having a different palate of colors to work with.
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Muzock
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/09 13:09:37
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I useDim Pro alot all the time. But, I'm not very good on the programming. I take the presets as is. I took one instance for a track and after the recording is done I freeze the track.
Sometimes, I use 5 and 6 instance of it.
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musichoo
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/10 06:16:43
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/10 06:23:52
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I tend to agree with Muzock in that my programming chops are fairly limited - though I know the basics and being able to alter things filter cutoff/resonance, VCA settings, bend ranges etc is about as deep as I get.
Dim Pro finds it's way onto nearly every one of my projects with at least 4/5 instances in every one. I find the sounds immediately useful, especially after a bit of minimal tweaking like I described above.
The last version update was to 1.5, I don't know if this will be subject to further updates, probably not
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Kev999
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/10 08:12:26
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musichoo
SFZ easy to use or pain in the butt?
Both. I normally create a new sfz file by copying an existing one and editing it. Alternatively, if a set of sample WAVs are already named according to the notes they represent, I use SfzEd to generate an sfz file.
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Grem
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/10 09:18:15
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Kev999
musichoo
SFZ easy to use or pain in the butt?
Both. I normally create a new sfz file by copying an existing one and editing it. Alternatively, if a set of sample WAVs are already named according to the notes they represent, I use SfzEd to generate an sfz file.
So if I understand you here, you find a preset that you like, but want to change it in some way, and then you alter the new file you create and save that? What I would like to do is to alter the preset sounds in a manner that fits what I am going for.
Grem
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Kev999
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/10 10:05:18
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Grem
Kev999
...I normally create a new sfz file by copying an existing one and editing it...
So if I understand you here, you find a preset that you like, but want to change it in some way, and then you alter the new file you create and save that? That's not what I meant. I would only create a new sfz file for a new sampleset. For example, I sampled a set of notes on my bass guitar and saved them as WAVs. Then I copied an existing sfz file for bass guitar, renamed it and amended it to suit my requirements. I wouldn't alter presets by messing with sfz files. What do you think Dimension Pro is for?
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Grem
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/10 10:12:50
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Kev999
Grem
Kev999
What do you think Dimension Pro is for? Sorry I even bothered you.
Grem
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bitflipper
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/10 10:55:29
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I don't use it nearly as often as Kontakt, and I'm not sure I'd pay $99 for it if it weren't bundled with Producer, but I'm glad I have Dim Pro. It's a good addition to any soft synth collection.
There are many more sample libraries available for Kontakt, including many that are free or very cheap. OTOH, Dim Pro is less resource-intensive so it's more practical to insert many instances into a project. Both are very easy to use if you're just loading presets, and either one makes it fairly easy to whip up a library of your own samples.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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brammer
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/10 10:59:59
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I use the presets in Dimension Pro, usually the bass (even though I'm a bass player) and sometimes piano/organ/synth
I find Kontakt harder to work with - though once I load version 5 that may change
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Kev999
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/10 16:58:06
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Grem Kev999
What do you think Dimension Pro is for? Sorry I even bothered you.
My remark was only intended as a pointer back to the main topic of this thread. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.
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Eddie TX
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/10 18:00:27
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Dim Pro is a valuable part of the Sonar package. It has a lot of nice-sounding samples that in some cases surpass what's in the standard Kontakt factory library, e.g. Martin Acoustic Guitar. It's also pretty easy to use compared with Kontakt, and would suit beginners and intermediate-level enthusiasts just fine.
HOWEVER, as BitFlipper noted, a whole world of possibilities opens up for you when you have Kontakt. It's pretty much the industry-standard sampler. You can choose from not only NI's Komplete suite, but also tons of third-party libraries, many of which are free or very inexpensive. Example: the Indiginus Acoustic Guitar Collection ($40), which goes far beyond what you'll find in Dim Pro.
So, if you're serious about having the widest possible sonic palette, and the most powerful tools, you'll want to invest in Kontakt. It comes with lots of flexible editing, filtering, and mixing features, high-quality effects, and other goodies. Did I mention the included sample library? Lots of great stuff there -- I like the electric guitars, orchestral, and choral groups especially.
I don't think CW will ever try to update Dim Pro to match what Kontakt can do, nor do I think that would be a good use of resources. As it is, Dim Pro fits in with the Sonar suite very well.
Kontakt goes on sale pretty reguarly -- recently it could be had for $200. Until then, download the free Kontakt Player to get a feel for how it works. Have fun!
(Note: not affiliated with any of these companies, just a happy customer.)
Cheers,
Eddie
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musichoo
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/10 20:15:58
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Thank you all for taking the time to respond. That really make my day!
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timidi
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/10 20:46:45
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DimPro is OK. But, there are much better alternatives.
I've found it useful here and there but, mainly the way the file system is laid out and non-accessible, after the fact, is ridiculous. It's not very intuitive.
Still haven't figured out how to edit a patch to suit my needs. The idea of doing it in a txt file is ridiculous.
So, I get to the point where I'd just rather not bother.
Haven't tried accessing sounds with the browser. Maybe that would help for auditioning sounds.
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soens
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/10 21:30:23
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I use it a lot but find on occasion it doesn't work when reloading a project. Everything "looks" right but it won't produce any sound. I have to delete it and insert a new one for it to work. This happens so infrequently that I can't determin the cause.
Steve
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SToons
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/10 22:02:52
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It`s free, use it, but it is not in the same league as Kontakt. Major drawbacks:
SFZ is a terribly cumbersome and time-consuming method of editing. Not to mention I have demonstrated the editing documentation is flawed and inaccurate at times.
The filters are not great.
Dimpro will not Import any other Sampler formats as far as I know, Kontakt will Import many.
I can`t use DimPro seriously enough, it`s too limited, to even try to compare it`s features to Kontakt.
Anyone who is into sampling will likely outgrow DimPro pretty quick.
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Rain
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/10 22:24:19
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I love it.
It's one of the few synths I really missed when I switched to Mac, along w/ Zeta, both of which I have now installed.
Though it is sample-based, I don't really think of it as a sampler. I prefer to just tweak existing patches. It would be way too cumbersome to use as a sampler for me, w/ the SFZ editor and all...
OTOH, Kontakt is much too deep for my needs. I like simple samplers, like DiscoDSP High Life or Logic's EXS-24. So even Kontakt I use more as a sample library playback engine.
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quibb
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/10 23:04:21
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DimPro is awesome - I use it all the time. I use it mainly for my meat and potatoes sounds, like if I'm looking for a good rock bass or a decent piano patch. For my electronic sounds I go to Z3ta +2. If you haven't done it before, one cool thing to do is to drag and drop a Rex file into Dimension. It separates the file into it's individual componenets and opens up a lot of possibilities. Craig Anderton wrote an article on it a while back http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun09/articles/sonarworkshop_0609.htm?vm=r I have some DSF stuff that is similar in quality to the original patches. I also have Kontakt free that I use with my Ocean Way drum library, but that is the limit of my experience with it. I'd definitely support any further developement! Vernon
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daryl1968
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/10 23:10:44
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I rate Dim Pro and use it all the time however I have to agree with Timidi that the file system is a pain in the arse. A simple search box would be great.
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techead
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/11 07:26:54
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It seems most common that folks focus on Dimension Pro's sample-playback capabilities and tend to compare it with something like Kontakt . There is some overlap with those types of instruments, but Dimension Pro is really a combination instrument with sample playback capability, WaveTable Synthesis, WaveGuide Synthesis capability. I keep that in mind when I'm making comparisons to Kontakt or other sample-playback-based instruments. Dimension Pro started life as "Dimension" and was originally introduced exclusively with Cakewalk's Project5 softsynth DAW. It was then later made available as a stand alone instrument and eventually bundled with SONAR. The old Project5 Wiki had quite a number of tutorials and tips for Dimension/Dimension Pro written by the software developers and by end users, all nicely indexed and gathered into one place. Some time ago the Project5 Wiki server was hijacked and the maintainer just let it go. At that point this information was formally "lost" to the Dimension Pro enthusiasts. I have built a new Dimension Pro enthusiast site and am pulling in the old information as I encounter it from what I had downloaded from the old P5 Wiki in the past. Perhaps some of the information that is there so far may prove useful to you as you work with Dimension Pro: http://dimension.technetos.com/
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musichoo
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/11 10:32:42
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Thanks Bob. I will check your link.
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SToons
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/12 02:18:48
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techead
It seems most common that folks focus on Dimension Pro's sample-playback capabilities and tend to compare it with something like Kontakt . There is some overlap with those types of instruments, but Dimension Pro is really a combination instrument with sample playback capability, WaveTable Synthesis, WaveGuide Synthesis capability. I keep that in mind when I'm making comparisons to Kontakt or other sample-playback-based instruments.
From Craig Anderton, SOS magazine: "First, any sound that is less than 4000 samples long is read as a single-cycle wavetable, just like an ordinary synthesizer oscillator; Dimension Pro generates an image of the sample that eliminates digital aliasing so it can be used across the entire keyboard. There is also a waveguide generator, for plucked-string instruments. " Again, by no means an attempt to discredit DimPro but in reality it appears the "Wavetable" abilities could be duplicated in any decent sampler. Rapture functions similiarly in terms of importing waves to use as oscillators. It`s quite easy to find literally thousands of short "wavetable" files from vintage and modern gear alike not to mention some cool programs that will let you draw any wave shape you like. The wavetables (wave files) included with DimPro and Rapture can quite easily be loaded into Kontakt, to name the obvious comparison. The only unique feature I can see is the plucked-string waveguide generator although the LFO abilities are cool. Not saying there aren`t more but that`s all that jumps out at me. I would be curious to know what is specifically meant by " Dimension Pro generates an image of the sample that eliminates digital aliasing". For anyone who owns DimPro the issue is a moot point. For someone looking to purchase a new sampler the price has to be weighed against the benefits and prices of other synths/samplers. I`ll re-iterate once more - this is not to cut down DimPro as it seems to be a good product but as a person who has sampled for years and had several prior samplers (AudioCompositor, Gigasampler/Gigastudio, Kontakt etc.) before encountering DimPro I didn`t find a whole lot in DimPro to grab my attention but I did find it a little cumbersome and time-consuming to use for my needs. YMMV.
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SToons
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/12 02:29:59
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AT
DimPro is pretty much a straight ahead synth compared to Kontact. There are some rhythmic presets, but not the same. Also it is only 4 different voices.
SFZ is a great, but text-based definition system. You can do a lot w/ it, like NI's scripting, but it is a lot of right-side brain work. The biggest flaw w/ Rapture/Dimpro etc. is the lack of a visual editing system. Of course, René said that this allowed flexibility and an ever-evolving system. However, I think most users would have prefered a scheme that was easy, point and click, rather than typing (or copying and pasting) for something as simple as note-range.
Many of the settings in the SFZ file can be seemingly over-written from the GUI, for example filter settings. If such is the case I can`t see why features like a sample-mapping editor can`t be incoporated into the GUI. That would go a fair ways towards making DimPro more user-friendly.
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mudgel
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/12 06:54:12
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I would really love to be able to put the Multisamples somewhere more easily than having to edit the registry. Since the 1.5 update i still haven't been able to get it to work properly. I did a fresh install by the way.
You should be able to tell Dim Pro where the Programs are and where the Multisamples are.
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techead
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/12 07:34:15
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SToons
techead
It seems most common that folks focus on Dimension Pro's sample-playback capabilities and tend to compare it with something like Kontakt . There is some overlap with those types of instruments, but Dimension Pro is really a combination instrument with sample playback capability, WaveTable Synthesis, WaveGuide Synthesis capability. I keep that in mind when I'm making comparisons to Kontakt or other sample-playback-based instruments.
From Craig Anderton, SOS magazine:
"First, any sound that is less than 4000 samples long is read as a single-cycle wavetable, just like an ordinary synthesizer oscillator; Dimension Pro generates an image of the sample that eliminates digital aliasing so it can be used across the entire keyboard. There is also a waveguide generator, for plucked-string instruments. "
Again, by no means an attempt to discredit DimPro but in reality it appears the "Wavetable" abilities could be duplicated in any decent sampler. Rapture functions similiarly in terms of importing waves to use as oscillators. It`s quite easy to find literally thousands of short "wavetable" files from vintage and modern gear alike not to mention some cool programs that will let you draw any wave shape you like. The wavetables (wave files) included with DimPro and Rapture can quite easily be loaded into Kontakt, to name the obvious comparison.
The only unique feature I can see is the plucked-string waveguide generator although the LFO abilities are cool.
Wavetable Synthesis and Sample Playback are different, not the same. Wavetable Synthesis is, as Craig Anderton described, a short sample (4KB or less) modified to become a single cycle waveform played back by an oscillator. This single-cycle waveform is repeated thousands of times per second to become a generated tone. Sample Playback is a very large (usually several MB up to several GB) and is played through once by an oscillator with the possibility of a section of the sample being played repeatedly in a long sustain loop if such is enabled. A single sample in this case has thousands of cycles contained in a single run through of the sample from beginning to end by the oscillator. Dimension Pro changes between Wavetable Synthesis mode or Sample Playback mode automatically depending upon the size of the source sample being loaded (<4KB = Wavetable, >4KB = Sample Playback). However, this behavior can be overridden if desired by the sound designer using opcodes in the SFZ file. Dimension Pro's sample playback sample set is simply RIFF formatted audio samples stored in standard Microsoft .wav containers and can easily be used in almost any software-based sample playback instrument. But for another instrument to make good use of its Wavetable sample sets would require that instrument to be able to perform wavetable synthesis--loading a small 4K or less sample from Dimension Pro's wavetable sample set would result in a short single cycle burst of noise unless it were repeated thousands of times per second by the oscillator to build a tone and filtered appropriately.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/12 09:29:57
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mudgel
I would really love to be able to put the Multisamples somewhere more easily than having to edit the registry. Since the 1.5 update i still haven't been able to get it to work properly. I did a fresh install by the way.
You should be able to tell Dim Pro where the Programs are and where the Multisamples are.
Now, I thought you could redirect DP and point it to where your samples live without delving into the Registry. Can't check now, but I will later. Also, I had all sorts of trouble with version 1.5 until I went into the registry and removed the entries relating to 1.2- it's been rock solid ever since.
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AT
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Re:Dim Pro user please respond.
2012/09/12 10:22:24
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People tend to get hung up on SFZ and the complexities of it. Once you load in a sample DimPro acts just like any other rampler w/ the full complement of filters, LFOs and effects.
For most jobs, the most SFZ you'll need is for multisamples - and you can just copy the text from some other multisample and edit it for your use or open a preset that matches your samples and load in your new ones.
SFZ should be thought of as an extra layer of control that most of us don't really need to worry about other than speading multisamples across the keyboard. Once that is done, there are plenty of hands on ways to define your sound. Still, as I said above, this was a big problem w/ SFZs wider acceptance. For most users, a graphic interface would have been easier and therefore better, esp. for something as mundane as mapping. The rest of the "hidden" controls would have been gravy. I imagine Cake didn't pursue because of the costs for a primarily DAW company and needing to constantly update the interface as new functions were added w/in SFZ.
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