Beepster
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DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
At a bit of a crossroads in my project. I have multiple MIDI parts I think I'd like to use DimPro for (bass, orchestra strings, vocal choir). So I can set up Dpro in multi timbral mode (which supposedly allows up to four separate sounds/channels to play from one instance) or of course set up an instance for each instrument. Multiple instances is obviously guaranteed to do what I want but is going to weigh down an already really heavy duty project. Just not sure if using it in multi timbral mode will essentially work the same. Note: This will be my first time really using DP to accomplish something more complex than just a simple one track/instrument synth. Thanks.
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Beepster
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/18 11:01:49
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hmm... just checking my instrument track inputs and it looks like there are only two audio outputs from DimPro (left and right of the stereo output). This won't work for me anyway because I wanted to deal with 4 distinct outputs. I don't have it in multitimbral mode yet so maybe that's the problem but now that I think of it even if I got 4 channels some of these instruments need to be stereo anyway (so four unique outputs would only be two stereo outputs which is not enough). Oh well. Still interested to hear about using the multi timbral mode and whatever else you guys want to talk about regarding this synth. I know it's cool, I've been learning about it and using it a bit more so yeah... I like ideas and hearing about the things you veterans get up to with stuff. Open thread about DimPro (unless there are some thoughts on my little dilemma regarding outputs/multi mode). Cheers.
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John
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/18 11:10:38
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Thats fine for your own samples but for the Dim Pro library for most of the samples all four channels are needed. These are often layered. One reason it has four channels. Dim Pro is really a single instrument sample player. I like to use Kontakt for multiple instruments and Dim Pro for its own sound of one or at best two instances. I have never used its channels with different sounds.
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Beepster
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/18 11:32:51
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Hi, John. Yeah... as I thought about it more that realization (and others) started setting in. Multiple instances it is then. I may have to start freezing stuff. My main CPU core is still at only about 50% and the others are kind of bouncing around between 5-50% so I could push it more but I don't like pushing things right to the edge. RAM is still totally fine (I don't think I've ever broken 25% on my 16GB of RAM which is pretty cool). Thanks.
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AT
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/18 11:38:45
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The 4 elements are usually layered to an extent - esp. for strings and orch instruments. It is usually more trouble than its worth to try to use multi-timbral mode unless you have a bunch of single-sample patches. I'm not sure how much CPU you'll save by using it instead of more instances. That is a little more draw, I would wager, but it ain't like doubling the CPU drainage to use two instances of Dimpro instead of one instance with 4 elements. Each element is like a synth unto itself - they only share global effects. @
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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Beepster
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/18 12:35:30
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Hi, AT. Yeah I'm off that kick now. I was thinking (or wasn't) thinking I could get away with some fancy routing and could if I wanted to but it would suck for what I am trying out. I'm going to drop a trick in this thread though that I figure out (all by my lonesome... lulz) I think is cool. So I like doing the "blended" bass sound where you clone your live bass track, dial in one clean, round and bottomy and the clone with some grit/saturation and EQ'd to get more of the high end pick sound. Then you blend them through a bus (where you can process further). I usually play my own bass tracks but am working with some MIDI bass. So for a stereo out bass synth like SI or DimPro what I'm doing is setting up the synths stereo output so it is two mono outputs. With the two outputs I can do the clone and blend trick exactly the same way. eg: Left channel can be the fat and round part of the bass and Right channel the gritty/picky/hi end. It works pretty good so far. That's totally OT though but I thought it's cool and been meaning to post it. I'm sure others have done exactly the same thing so I don't claim this as an original idea. ;-)
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michael diemer
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/18 17:26:55
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Never been able to get Dim Pro to work in multi-timbral.
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/18 21:12:46
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You may or not know this ,if you do please disregard to get it to work properly , you have to open up two instances of Dimension Pro … then you use one to audition sounds …..once you find a patch you want to use , you copy and paste it to the Dimension Pro you want to use as a multit-timbral ….repeat until you have the 4 sounds you want … Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2015/08/18 21:29:51
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bvideo
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/18 22:50:49
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Most likely the "elements" will use the same CPU in multi-timbral or multi-instance. But each instance piles on internal effects, most likely. In some cases it might be good to disable the Dim Pro effects and bus the voices onto a common effects bus.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/19 00:52:04
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sure , I agree w you bvideo on disabling the effects on Dim Pro when going multi … at least until you have things sitting as you want them to sit in the mix …. I've had it happen where I left the effects on the D P while going multi and as my song progressed it took a lot of time and hunting to track down where all the effects were coming from . say is that a pan head in your avatar ? Kenny
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stickman393
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/19 01:10:50
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I have a standard "Quartet" patch that I use with Dimension Pro. I've loaded up Violin1, Violin2, Violas and Cellos, in each of the four elements, with individual panning to taste. I then drive the single DimPro instance with four separate MIDI tracks, one per element. I know this doesn't meet your needs, Beep, because I use the Stereo out from Dim pro. But it is a viable use case.
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bvideo
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/19 19:01:50
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kennywtelejazz ... say is that a pan head in your avatar ? Kenny
It's a flathead (side valve) from the 1930's. Not mine. I had a KHK (50's) also a flathead.
post edited by bvideo - 2015/08/19 19:17:55
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michael diemer
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/19 23:16:59
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I don't see any advantage in running multi-timbral mode. Is there CPU gain? Otherwise, why bother?
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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stickman393
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/20 01:50:00
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I'd much rather run (and freeze) one instance of Dim-Pro than 4. Of course there's a CPU gain as well. But it's not a generally-applicable solution to run Dim Pro multi-timbral.
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Kev999
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/20 04:19:27
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I don't believe that there is any significant performance difference in using Multitimbral Mode in place of multiple instances of DimPro. Only use if you want more than one sound per note out of a single "instrument".
Here's an example. Load a pad multisample into Element 1. After tweaking the settings to your liking, copy and paste it to the other 3 elements. Alter the settings of each element in turn, e.g. add a slight tremolo to one and maybe a tremolo with a different frequency on another, or a slower attack, or different decay levels, or whatever. Now create some long sustained chords in PRV. By default the notes will all be set to Channel 1, so change some of them to 2, 3 or 4. Chords made up of subtly different variations around the same sample set will sound a lot richer and much more interesting.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/20 04:23:39
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bvideo
kennywtelejazz ... say is that a pan head in your avatar ? Kenny
It's a flathead (side valve) from the 1930's. Not mine. I had a KHK (50's) also a flathead.
cool thanks , nice looking motor … stickman393 I'd much rather run (and freeze) one instance of Dim-Pro than 4. Of course there's a CPU gain as well. But it's not a generally-applicable solution to run Dim Pro multi-timbral.
sure …I like to do the same thing myself…. Say , I see you have been around here for a while … what I'm about to say is more or less for a lot of the folks that came around much later on … We are talking about an Instrument that proven itself for something like 10 years ( or more ) 10 years ago Multi -Timbral was a big thing if you had a P 4 you were good to go , if you had a Dual core or more you were considered to be running something top shelf . let us not forget fellas and ladies how good we do have it now …( sermon / reminder over ) When the D P came out , the street price was around $ 250.00 …this was a lot of money back in 2005 / 2006 … All I know is that I was new around here and I sure got a real bad case of the " I want it's " The Cakewalk forum itself was a hotbed of super creative energy back then . Rene`was almost here daily posting tips and tricks , B Rock , Brandon , + a whole group of contributors comprised of forum members were brought together by The Dimension Pro … The Dimension Pro indeed created quite a stir . I saw this instrument not only as a creative tool , I saw this instrument somewhat along the lines of something like a compressor like one would put on a mix to add glue …it brought a lot of people together on a social level here on the forum and it had a lot to offer everybody from all walks of music…. The Dimension Pro still does ….imho You know it almost funny, I don't think I remember ever seeing anybody ever fighting and arguing over it The SONAR guys loved it , The P 5 guys loved it …the Space Rock guys loved it , the Tweaky Geek Type guys that love to twiddle knobs for hours on end loved it ….even the dog I had at the time when I got it loved it  ….. I wound up getting the DP at a reduced price of $100 …That was the deal Cakewalk offer me as a P 5 user Anyway it's a Great Synth I happen to Love it ….I still use it on almost everything ….. having it around , it sort of feels like a comfortable buddy that I like to hang with and do music with … i found this link looking around tonight …this may be of interest to anyone who might want to read up on the Dimension Pro ……I'm already eyeballing a few of the skins …… http://dimension.technetos.com Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2015/08/20 04:56:33
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Beepster
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/20 12:59:55
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Hi, guys. Very cool info in this thread. It's given me lots of ideas and insight on DPro. I've always known it was a good synth/sampler but as an old stage stomping guit hound MIDI, synths and sampler stuff was/is of course a massive learning curve. I'm really starting to get a handle on the basics but of course it takes years (or lifetimes) to really figure this stuff out so it's great seeing all the neat ways you guys use this thing. Bit of a kick start. A while back I made a decision to stop pining over tools I don't have (and can't afford) and instead properly learning what I already own (which is pretty much limited to the stuff I've gotten with Sonar with a couple calculated upgrades/purchases of third party stuff... some of which Cake have actually made unnecessary over time with the newer packages). I know Komplete and other things are the usual go to's and I'd love to try that stuff out but I am indeed finding that a) my insistance on forcing what I already own to do what I want and b) my initial investment in X1 Prod Suite (I did not know WTF I was doing but it seemed to provide all the tools I needed to make full productions in comparison to other packages) have paid off. DPro is definitely proving its value with what I am currently doing. It seems if there is a specific sound I need there is a bank for it somewhere (perfect example is I needed some gregorian chant type vocals and there's a decent sounding patch in there... not the greatest but I think I can tweak it to make it more how I like). @Kenny... I liked the history lesson. $250 is half the price I paid for the X1 Prod Suite which obviously came with a buttload more than just DPro (Sonar, Zeta+2 (which I love BTW), Rapture, SD3, a ton of other cool synths, a mountain of FX I'm still sorting through and a wicked upgrade path that has gotten me a few more buttloads of really cool stuff that I previously had been freaking out about buying from third party companies). Anyway... I know I keep saying that type of crap but as a broke arse ARTIST attempting to become a PRODUCER (not necessarily an engineer) it's things like DPro that leave me wanting for very little as I work. Even though I dig the workflow in Sonar (and that may be simply because I have so many hours invested in it) I'm quite positive it has saved me thousands of dollars. More accurately though, since I don't have thousands of dollars to spend or save, it's allowed me to work reasonably unhindered by lack of sounds, tools or options. It almost seems like the program/package has been growing with my own personal needs. It's almost freaky actually. So just popping back in to thank everyone for their suggestions (and to blather a bit... I was ill yesterday so wasn't around). It has all given me some good ideas for some stuff I need to do/want to try and pointed out some potential limitations which I was initially asking about but don't matter anyway because based on this thread I have mentally sorted out a ton of efficient workaraounds. You guys, as always, rule. Cheers.
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Anderton
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/20 14:30:38
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Don't forget that Dim Pro handles REX files really well. Until Propellerheads came out with the Octo Rex, Dim Pro was the best option for playing multiple, synched REX files.
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Beepster
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Re: DimPro: Pros and Cons of using "Multi Timbral" mode vs. Multiple instances?
2015/08/20 14:56:46
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Anderton Don't forget that Dim Pro handles REX files really well. Until Propellerheads came out with the Octo Rex, Dim Pro was the best option for playing multiple, synched REX files.
I've slowly been mucking my way through the SWA Instruments vids again but this time I'm actually messing with the synths as I go. This of course in between the real "work" I'm doing in Sonar as well. If you are familiar with those vids Karl seems to go through the simpler older stuff to give an idea of what specific things do then builds up to the more complex modern "replacements". I'm actually at the point of the SFZ and RXP section which progresses on to DimPro. So yeah... even the included instruments is almost a history lesson but also a way to sort through some of the crazier synths like DPro which seem to be multi purpose. Also nice little peek into how those multisample type files look... which of course has led to me researching how to code and deploy them. Not that I'm doing that yet nor have I totally taught myself but now I know what all that crud means and where to find info if I really needed to dig in and create my own programs. Slow but steady wins the something something... ;-p
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