Helpful ReplyDisable Speed-comping?

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brconflict
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2017/01/29 17:37:31 (permalink)

Disable Speed-comping?

Is there a way to just disable speed-comping? I think in the past several months of that type of editing, I've had to perform a great deal more clip troubleshooting than before since X1. The way it mutes parts of other clips, the way it mends clips, and the way the extremely maddening Paste action occurs just makes editing a real pain when you're trying not to edit with speed-comping methods. There's so many times an artist will find their clips cut short, muted, doubled up and just some very random and unexpected chaos in a project.

I strongly urge CW to not try and simplify without options. When you make something simple for simplistic reasons, the more advanced techniques (and I mean advanced, as in not using shortcut type tools) become more difficult to perform. The "convenience" tools get in the way. In this case, Speed-comping is routinely getting in my way now. 

Brian
 
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Beepster
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Re: Disable Speed-comping? 2017/01/29 17:49:49 (permalink)
Just use the top half of a clip to avoid the "Comping" tool. This makes the Smart Tool behave more or less as it did before comping. Alternatively you can use the older, more dedicated tools in the toolbar (there are various hotkey setups that can be employed to make this faster).
 
To avoid "Comping" actions happening while recording (for example you have 2 minute clips and then record a 1 minute clip and that causes automatice splits/promotion actions) then set your Record Preferences to "Sound On Sound" (or Overwrite if you want old material to be deleted but I don't think that's what you want).
 
Comping and Lanes are here to stay though. They work rather well for me so I'd recommend learning/using them as much as possible and only default to the old mechanisms when absolutely necessary.
 
Cheers.
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Lynn
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Re: Disable Speed-comping? 2017/01/29 17:50:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mmarton 2017/03/10 20:08:36
Right click on the record button in the control bar and change to overwrite and do it the old fashioned way.

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Lynn

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Anderton
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Re: Disable Speed-comping? 2017/01/29 18:33:31 (permalink)
You can just record takes into separate tracks, split the tracks where you would if you were doing speed comping, loop the section you're evaluating, and use Exclusive Solo to figure out what's best.
 
Lately I've been alternating between punching into alternate tracks and A-Bing them to choose a "winner," but doing speed comping if there are lots of takes. The upcoming improvement in January that fixes the problem THambrecht identified should help considerably in terms of cleanup.
 
Also I mentioned this in another thread but snapping really helps when splitting for speed comping.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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brconflict
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Re: Disable Speed-comping? 2017/01/29 19:50:49 (permalink)
Well, the issue I'm running into is when editing after recording. Newer features, such as Speed-comping seem to get more in my way, than I'd like. Many bands I record sound best without metronomes and static snap-points so they're playing can breathe a little. Speed-comping helps a little with vocals, but rarely anything else, and now it's just in my way.

I do record things in alternating tracks, but that gets incredibly messy. Speed-comping also gets rudely messy when it heals clips, or I start to see shards appear within clips, under them, or at the ends of them if my selecting isn't perfect.
 
I'm at the point of begging to just shut it off for now. Sessions are taking a long time to clean up.

Brian
 
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brconflict
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Re: Disable Speed-comping? 2017/01/29 19:54:04 (permalink)
Anderton
You can just record takes into separate tracks, split the tracks where you would if you were doing speed comping, loop the section you're evaluating, and use Exclusive Solo to figure out what's best.
 
Lately I've been alternating between punching into alternate tracks and A-Bing them to choose a "winner," but doing speed comping if there are lots of takes. The upcoming improvement in January that fixes the problem THambrecht identified should help considerably in terms of cleanup.
 
Also I mentioned this in another thread but snapping really helps when splitting for speed comping.




My philosophy for software I use is that it "stays out of my way". I just want to work on a project, not the DAW's features.

Brian
 
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brconflict
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Re: Disable Speed-comping? 2017/01/29 20:00:15 (permalink)
Beepster
 
Comping and Lanes are here to stay though. They work rather well for me so I'd recommend learning/using them as much as possible and only default to the old mechanisms when absolutely necessary.
 
Cheers.




Got no problem with the new features staying, and I do learn and make use of them. I just want to disable them at times. I suggested a feature to allow us to optionally "dumb" down the Smart Tool in Prefs. That would help tremendously. I believe these new Speed-comping features are a great idea, but too much was assumed.

Brian
 
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Anderton
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Re: Disable Speed-comping? 2017/01/29 20:36:02 (permalink)
brconflict
Anderton
You can just record takes into separate tracks, split the tracks where you would if you were doing speed comping, loop the section you're evaluating, and use Exclusive Solo to figure out what's best.
 
Lately I've been alternating between punching into alternate tracks and A-Bing them to choose a "winner," but doing speed comping if there are lots of takes. The upcoming improvement in January that fixes the problem THambrecht identified should help considerably in terms of cleanup.
 
Also I mentioned this in another thread but snapping really helps when splitting for speed comping.




My philosophy for software I use is that it "stays out of my way". I just want to work on a project, not the DAW's features.

 
My philosophy is I learn the DAW's features, and then I can choose what makes it stay out of my way  That's not being snarky, it's just that I don't always accept at face value that something has to be done the way a manufacturer wants you to do it. Also by snapping, I don't mean the music has to be cut to a click. Most of the parts I comp don't begin or end neatly on snap points, but it's not about snapping per se; if all the clips are the same length, it makes it easier to do "comping Legos."
 
FWIW January seems to make the "shards problem" go away because it prevents the now time backing up issue. That was my biggest complaint by far.
 
I went through a period of using speed comping to get used to it, then through a period of just using tracks or punching because I didn't like the "messiness" to which you refer, but now I've gotten good at comping so I use a mix of techniques depending on the job at hand. What speed comping does well, it does very well. For what it doesn't do well, you can basically turn comping off by not using it. I've also re-discovered the merits of punching for quick fixes.
 
For example don't use the comping tool to split; select all your takes by selecting the parent track, position the now time where you want a split, and type S. Do this for the length of the file (the takes will remain selected) and then you have your segments to evaluate. You can still use the shift+space bar + arrow keys to audition them rapidly, and use the Smart Tool in the upper half of the ciip. Also if you hold Ctrl, you can use the smart tool to do regular slip-editing instead of having it turn into a crossfading tool, as well as cut individual clips with Alt+smart tool. Or as Beepster points out, you can just use the dedicated tools although if you learn a couple keyboard shortcuts you probably won't have to.
 
Maybe something on "Slow Comping" would make for a good Tip of the Week. I've spent a fair amount of time coming up with variations on the comping theme, so if I write them up, others won't have to re-invent the wheel.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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brconflict
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Re: Disable Speed-comping? 2017/01/29 23:50:34 (permalink)
Yup! Agreed. There's ways to work around things. I'm just finding that happens more as of late than two years ago in the editor. Working around new features is slower, and at times, unpredictable, than before the new features were implemented. A few check-boxes in Prefs to dumb down the Smart Tool, or to disable Speed Comp processes would speed me up far more than any previous efforts. So, yeah, sometimes I want to use something new and useful like Speed comping. Other times I need them out of my way. Simple as that, really.

Brian
 
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Disable Speed-comping? 2017/01/30 10:50:50 (permalink)
There's a bit of a misnomer here.  'Speed comping' as I wrote it is specific to using the cursor keys to select alternate takes and uses the 'audition' mode to get started.  In other words, select the starting take, hit shift spacebar, then move the selection around to speedily hear different takes.
 
So if you don't want to use speed comping, just don't follow those steps.
 
Sounds like your real issue is problems with editing which Craig stated we're working on improving and refining.
2017.01's update already has a fix for some of the shard issues we had previously.  Coming for 02 we'll address an issue where too many take lanes are created when all you want to do is record in a different part of the tune.
If you don't want the comp tool gestures, pick the dedicated tool you'd like to work with.  Or, just collapse the take lanes and work with the parent track.  We plan to make it more clear where the comp tool will operate on a clip soon.
 
Keith

Keith
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Beepster
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Re: Disable Speed-comping? 2017/01/30 11:33:17 (permalink)
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Coming for 02 we'll address an issue where too many take lanes are created when all you want to do is record in a different part of the tune.



Hi, Keith. I'm guessing this means lanes that have been previously recorded into (except earlier in the project) will be reused for any new material reorded later on the timeline (provided there is not clip overlap with the previously recorded material).
 
I totally get why folks would want that behavior. Myself though prefer one clip per lane in ALL circumstances. Mainly it is for organizational purposes while editing. I keep elaborate notes (in the Lanes Notes section) on all my takes. If there is more than two clips in a single lane it messes up that scheme (I have to create two sets of notes in one Lane Notes box which gets messy... basically I have to create a numbering scheme and take extra care not to screw it up).
 
I also tend to use the Lanes "select" button for quite a few things. In my current workflow I am guaranteed to only be selecting the one clip* in the Lane. If I delete or cut or whatever I know it's not affecting something further down the timeline that I may not see (offscreen). That used to mess me up sometimes in the days of Layers (and I was still learning).
 
*In the current Lanes setup the first clip recorded further down the timeline will land in the last populated Lane (if there is no overlap) before subsequent recordings start creating new, dedicated lanes. I am so ingrained in my One Clip Per Lane workflow that I will actually manually create a new empty lane to move that doubled up clip into to preserve the "One Clip Per Lane" method.
 
Sooooo... (and hopefully that makes sense) I hope that this new system will be something that can be turned on/off like other recording/editing options. Like a simple "Use One Lane Per Clip" (to get the current system) and a "Multiple Clips Per Lane When Possible" for the new system I believe you are proposing.
 
lol... now I'M asking to be able to turn things off even before they are implemented.
 
I might still use the new way for certain things but my current workflow serves me well so I'd hate to lose it.
 
Thanks.
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dcmg
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Re: Disable Speed-comping? 2017/01/30 21:00:26 (permalink)
"now I'M asking to be able to turn things off even before they are implemented"
 
haha...funny observation Beepster. I don't know how Keith and these guys do it.
Even with some rather brilliant writing ( and I do think the speed comping is brilliant even with some of its quirks), we all find ways to use it differently or slightly amended to how it was conceptualized.
 
My process has turned into some bastardized mash up of all these great tools..sometimes pure loop recording/speed comping, sometimes the old single track way and sometimes just multiple tracks in a folder, one take per track. 
That gets back to knowing how to jump around between them, which gets back to the OP. 
I may not need the take lane/speed comping method for everything, but I'm glad it's easily accessible when I do.
( And I'm pretty sure my hands will thank Keith someday for reducing all the wear & tear on my hand during comping.....it's seriously made my life easier)

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