leegee
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/30 05:13:20
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That was a lot of responses, and most of them quite unpleasant, so sorry to not have read them all -- the nastiness and the third-person is off-putting.
Since I have 20% eyesight, I've been adjusting Windows cursors for some time. I find the custom cursors in Sonar do not scale as large as Windows Extra Large cursors do -- screen shots of non-custom cursors are not relevant, since they are no problem.
Someone said they 'don't see the point' to my post -- sorry if the title was not clear, nor my repeated exposition.
Someone got it, though, and mentioned that 'of course' there is a road map --- but no link. Is there a public road map, then? It would be good for both customers and developers. Sonar has so much going for it, I don't want to have to buy what I consider an inferior product because of what I consider an antiquated interface (click different tools to select, delete, add, lengthen/shorten notes? Touch for Solo/Mute/Rec, but not to select the track?)
And to the clever person who pointed out Sonar started later than I used it -- well spotted: I should have said that I used Cakewalk in the late '90s, and switched to Sonar when it was released. Glad you took the time to raise that, it was very helpful.
I will buy BitWig, just to see how it works over a few weeks -- their community certainly seems less self-indulgent.
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rwheeler
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/30 05:55:31
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In Windows 10, the additional mouse options link highlighted by Craig leads to a dialog box with multiple tabs that he did not display. In the "Pointers" tab, we have the option to select a "Scheme." One of the choices is "Magnified (system scheme)" which enlarges multiple pointer icons in addition to the normal select pointer icon. I had not seen the "scheme" option until this thread prompted me to poke around in the settings.
In the 'Pointer Options" tab, we can click a choice to show pointer trails and use a slider to make them long. That has helped me find the cursor when the screen is very busy. Also there is an option to "Show location of pointer when I press the CTRL key." That can be another way to find a missing pointer (if I remember), but some might find it annoying.
In Sonar Platinum, the magnified pointer scheme does maintain the large cursor pointer, which I appreciate. Some of the other mouse pointer graphics don't seem to be larger than before - for example draw tool and erase tool in piano roll view and move tool in track view. Since these graphics are not shown in the pointer customize list of the Mouse Properties "Pointers" tab, I suspect these graphic elements may not be native to windows. Wonder if there is a way to have them programmed to conform to the pointer scheme when one is selected for the system.
Anyway, thanks to Craig for the tip about cursor size.
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DrLumen
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/30 05:57:14
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☄ Helpfulby gothic.angel 2016/08/31 07:30:06
leegee
That was a lot of responses, and most of them quite unpleasant, so sorry to not have read them all -- the nastiness and the third-person is off-putting.
Since I have 20% eyesight, I've been adjusting Windows cursors for some time. I find the custom cursors in Sonar do not scale as large as Windows Extra Large cursors do -- screen shots of non-custom cursors are not relevant, since they are no problem.
Someone said they 'don't see the point' to my post -- sorry if the title was not clear, nor my repeated exposition.
Someone got it, though, and mentioned that 'of course' there is a road map --- but no link. Is there a public road map, then? It would be good for both customers and developers. Sonar has so much going for it, I don't want to have to buy what I consider an inferior product because of what I consider an antiquated interface (click different tools to select, delete, add, lengthen/shorten notes? Touch for Solo/Mute/Rec, but not to select the track?)
And to the clever person who pointed out Sonar started later than I used it -- well spotted: I should have said that I used Cakewalk in the late '90s, and switched to Sonar when it was released. Glad you took the time to raise that, it was very helpful.
I will buy BitWig, just to see how it works over a few weeks -- their community certainly seems less self-indulgent.
I would say we are protective. If you go into a (DAW of your choice) forum and immediately request changes I would bet you get the same type of response. I don't know about everybody else but I'm tired of companies changing the UI for the mere sake of change. Changes that are more for style and fashion than functional. Perhaps that is not what you meant but UI changes are a sore spot for me. For someone to come in as a newbie and want changes, changes that would affect how the rest of us use Sonar, seems a bit rude. Perhaps rude is too strong of a word but considering "I" am self-indulgent then I'll let it lay.
-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/30 07:55:49
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An overview of past updates with an indication of upcoming updates can be found here: http://www.cakewalk.com/P.../Rolling-Updates#startIf you find clicking various editing tools annoying, you can use the smart tool which does most of the operations, use a keyboard shortcut to change tools or use a keyboard key to do what you want directly (e.g. S to split a clip).
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John
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/30 08:05:11
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leegee
That was a lot of responses, and most of them quite unpleasant, so sorry to not have read them all -- the nastiness and the third-person is off-putting.
Since I have 20% eyesight, I've been adjusting Windows cursors for some time. I find the custom cursors in Sonar do not scale as large as Windows Extra Large cursors do -- screen shots of non-custom cursors are not relevant, since they are no problem.
Someone said they 'don't see the point' to my post -- sorry if the title was not clear, nor my repeated exposition.
Someone got it, though, and mentioned that 'of course' there is a road map --- but no link. Is there a public road map, then? It would be good for both customers and developers. Sonar has so much going for it, I don't want to have to buy what I consider an inferior product because of what I consider an antiquated interface (click different tools to select, delete, add, lengthen/shorten notes? Touch for Solo/Mute/Rec, but not to select the track?)
And to the clever person who pointed out Sonar started later than I used it -- well spotted: I should have said that I used Cakewalk in the late '90s, and switched to Sonar when it was released. Glad you took the time to raise that, it was very helpful.
I will buy BitWig, just to see how it works over a few weeks -- their community certainly seems less self-indulgent.
I'm sorry that you are having vision problems. However I think if you give it a change you may find it a great GUI. Skylight is a far better GUI than the old one that use to be in 8.5 and below. It will take some getting use to. Also some of the customization for impaired vision is no longer in it. But then there is the new theme editor that may help with contrast issues. Bitwig is not a direct competitor to Sonar. It is far closer to FL Studio or Reason. It certainly will present its own poor vision problems however it does have a slick GUI. I hope you find what you are looking for. No pun intended.
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dcumpian
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/30 08:20:00
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leegee
Since I have 20% eyesight, I've been adjusting Windows cursors for some time. I find the custom cursors in Sonar do not scale as large as Windows Extra Large cursors do -- screen shots of non-custom cursors are not relevant, since they are no problem.
Why not buy a larger monitor? Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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Anderton
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/30 13:20:50
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☄ Helpfulby outland144k 2016/08/30 14:46:46
leegee
That was a lot of responses, and most of them quite unpleasant, so sorry to not have read them all -- the nastiness and the third-person is off-putting.
You were doing fine until you dismissed techniques that did what you wanted as "well meaning" and said things like "If you try to do that yourself, you will see that it cursor size is not respected by Sonar." Clearly it was, because I took the time to use Steps Recorder to show the big cursor being used. I simply assumed that as a Logic user, you were coming from a Mac background and didn't know Windows that well. Also, saying some like "Sonar hasn't moved on since 1999" couldn't help but call into question whether you knew what you were talking about. If you had said "Sonar hasn't moved on since 1999 in terms of helping the visually impaired," I'm sure you would have gotten a MUCH different reception because that statement would make sense and I don't think anyone would disagree. Your question "are there plans to improve?" also seemed bizarre, given that you'd mentioned agile technology and the monthly updates, which are all about improvements and several have related to the GUI. But we didn't have the vital piece of data that you were talking specifically about improvements related not to the interface per se, but the interface as it relates to access for the visually impaired. Also I answered your question "Is there a roadmap for development?" by telling you where to find the information but in the post from which I quoted above, you wanted a link. I'm sorry I didn't provide a link, but I told you where to find those elements of the roadmap Cakewalk was willing to share. This comment also seemed bizarre: "Does anyone at Cakewalk read this forum?" given how the forum is peppered with posts from Noel Borthwick and other staffers, as well as all the updates that were done in response to the forum. It would have been very helpful if you had mentioned in the initial post that you have 20% eyesight. Until that post, we had no idea your complaints essentially involved access issues for the visually impaired. You came across like you were just complaining about the interface. In retrospect, you may have posed your questions innocently, and if English isn't your native language, then something can come across as condescending and arrogant even when that is not the intention - particularly if people had no way to understand the underlying problem, which wasn't stated until much later. I think the bottom line is this: If you like Bitwig and don't like SONAR, you should use Bitwig. Of course there are improvements planned for the future, but I don't think anyone can say for sure whether they will address your particular issues. Therefore you should go with what works for you now. I'm sorry you had a negative experience in terms of interaction with the forum, but I think you can see how easily what you said could be misinterpreted by those who did not have the data needed to truly understand the problem you wanted to discuss. BTW many times if someone doesn't speak English as their native language, they mention that so people understand there's a possibility of misinterpretation, and they can seek clarification if needed.
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ampfixer
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/30 14:13:09
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I was helping a guy sort out an amp problem and he was completely blind. At the time X1 had just come out and he was worried about the change from 8.5 because 8.5 integrated so well with Microsoft's built in tools for the visually impaired. At the time, he said it was the best option for him because he would get voice assistance from the software to tell him when he was on the correct controls.
I really hope Sonar and Windows have not left him behind. We don't have Cortana Voice in Canadian Windows so I've no idea how visual impairment has been addressed. I have no idea why the Canadian Cortana is mute.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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Anderton
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/30 14:23:39
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There was another thread where I talked about Windows' magnifier option. It's very helpful if your eyesight is bad, but not helpful to the blind. It's true that Cakewalk's programs worked well with assistance technology at one point however I'm not sure if that's still the case.
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bvideo
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/30 16:46:12
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Anderton
leegee
That was a lot of responses, and most of them quite unpleasant, so sorry to not have read them all -- the nastiness and the third-person is off-putting.
You were doing fine until you dismissed techniques that did what you wanted as "well meaning" and said things like "If you try to do that yourself, you will see that it cursor size is not respected by Sonar." Clearly it was, because I took the time to use Steps Recorder to show the big cursor being used. I simply assumed that as a Logic user, you were coming from a Mac background and didn't know Windows that well.
...
Maybe the OP should have more explicitly pointed out that all the custom cursors in Sonar stick to their original size, or maybe we should have taken more time to literally try to do that ourselves to realize that Sonar is very cursor-intensive, with loads of custom cursors that don't have size options. The original post was written from a reasonably balanced point of view. The cursor-size-oriented posts that followed were rather self-congratulatory, while totally missing the point that Sonar doesn't offer cursor size options for its own cursors (only in a few cases where it uses Windows cursors). Now that leegee has spelled out his particular need, it might be revealing to reread the whole series of posts from a different point of view. It's an unfortunate exhibit, I think.
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Anderton
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/30 16:57:41
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Yes, if we had known the situation upfront, that would have changed the tone of the dialog for sure. But all we had to go on was "I am finding it very hard to use -- largely because the mouse pointer is so small that I spend half my time looking for it." The section under Settings to which I alluded is under the "Mouse" setting and specifically called "Pointer." Given that it appeared he was coming from a Mac, I thought what I presented solved his problem with the "mouse pointer." So when he said the problem wasn't solved, but didn't elaborate on what he meant by "cursor," I still didn't know what he meant.
20/20 hindsight is great, but it took until his third post to fully understand the problem being described. Had there been a location next to his avatar, that would have been helpful. From what I can tell, he is posting from outside this country, and English is not his native language.
I have noticed that when the country of origin is indicated and it's one where the primary language is not English, forumites are much more likely not to take what's written at face value, but ask more questions about the issue to make sure they understand what's going on.
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rontarrant
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/30 19:09:38
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Why can't I delete a post?
post edited by rontarrant - 2016/08/30 19:37:30
-Ron T. ---------------------------------------------------------- MSI GE72 2QF-247US, 12 gb, Focusrite 6i6, AT-2020 ---------------------------------------------------------- Windows 10 x64, Sonar Platinum
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/30 20:50:32
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outland144k
kitekrazy1
BTW could you change your font and size in your post, very difficult to read and I ignore a lot of your posts. It's even difficult to read on a 32 inch display.
I could change it, but I think that you are the only person to mention this. I do "this" for the same reason some people use different colors in their posts. I'll think about changing it. Sorry if it's caused you any grief, however! Thankfully, I don't say a lot worth noticing.
Make the font bigger.
post edited by kitekrazy1 - 2016/08/30 21:14:11
Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4, NVidia 750ti, AP2496 Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro, 16GB Ram, AMD FX 6300, Gigabyte GA 970 -UD3 P, nVidia 9800GT, Guitar Port, Terratec EWX 2496
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Anderton
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/30 21:00:35
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bvideo
Now that leegee has spelled out his particular need, it might be revealing to reread the whole series of posts from a different point of view. It's an unfortunate exhibit, I think.
Misunderstandings happen, and when they do, there are really only three responses. 1. Ignore that it occurred. 2. Blame someone for it. 3. Analyze why it happened so hopefully it doesn't happen again, and move on. I prefer 3.
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/31 00:07:44
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leegee
...The main point of my post was in the title -- are there plans to improve?
Is there a roadmap for development?
Does anyone at Cakewalk read this forum?
Yes, we're continually improving. Yes there is a roadmap, and Yes, Cakewalkers er Bakers do read the forum. :) Sorry that your expectations with touch haven't been met. Care to elaborate on what you are trying to accomplish? We do have future plans to build upon the touch framework to cover more operations. As for cursors, I see that our custom cursors are a fixed size by comparison to the large or extra large Windows set. However, when Windows is using a large set, those are basically custom system cursors that happen to be larger. We'd have to find a way to detect that Windows is using a larger set and also use larger SONAR specific cursors. It would have been easier if Windows had a cursor size attribute where everything could realize n x n is the expected cursor size like you can for icons, please pick a cursor for that target size, but I digress. Anyway, after not finding a direct api for cursor size, I found a roundabout way to detect the size of say the normal cursor. Not sure if the cursor hotspots would line up properly after scaling to match. Will experiment. Keith
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patm300e
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/31 06:56:55
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Anyway, after not finding a direct api for cursor size, I found a roundabout way to detect the size of say the normal cursor. Not sure if the cursor hotspots would line up properly after scaling to match. Will experiment.
Keith
Now THAT is responsiveness. The director of development looking into your issue personally! Probably not gonna get that from any other DAW (or any other software in general). Kudos to Cakewalk for looking into this real issue for some of us aging users...May want to look at some of the 508 compliance stuff for ideas. Not that I think that 508 is totally necessary, but there are ideas in there about making interfaces better for those of us with disabilities.
 SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive. Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
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bvideo
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/31 10:40:46
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Anyway, after not finding a direct api for cursor size, I found a roundabout way to detect the size of say the normal cursor. Not sure if the cursor hotspots would line up properly after scaling to match. Will experiment.
Keith
Just for fun, I wanted to mention that some of the extra large Windows aero cursors in W7 are flawed in their hotspots. Makes things like resizing windows very confusing.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/31 11:14:02
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DrLumen
leegee
That was a lot of responses, and most of them quite unpleasant, so sorry to not have read them all -- the nastiness and the third-person is off-putting.
Since I have 20% eyesight, I've been adjusting Windows cursors for some time. I find the custom cursors in Sonar do not scale as large as Windows Extra Large cursors do -- screen shots of non-custom cursors are not relevant, since they are no problem.
Someone said they 'don't see the point' to my post -- sorry if the title was not clear, nor my repeated exposition.
Someone got it, though, and mentioned that 'of course' there is a road map --- but no link. Is there a public road map, then? It would be good for both customers and developers. Sonar has so much going for it, I don't want to have to buy what I consider an inferior product because of what I consider an antiquated interface (click different tools to select, delete, add, lengthen/shorten notes? Touch for Solo/Mute/Rec, but not to select the track?)
And to the clever person who pointed out Sonar started later than I used it -- well spotted: I should have said that I used Cakewalk in the late '90s, and switched to Sonar when it was released. Glad you took the time to raise that, it was very helpful.
I will buy BitWig, just to see how it works over a few weeks -- their community certainly seems less self-indulgent.
I would say we are protective. If you go into a (DAW of your choice) forum and immediately request changes I would bet you get the same type of response. I don't know about everybody else but I'm tired of companies changing the UI for the mere sake of change. Changes that are more for style and fashion than functional. Perhaps that is not what you meant but UI changes are a sore spot for me. For someone to come in as a newbie and want changes, changes that would affect how the rest of us use Sonar, seems a bit rude. Perhaps rude is too strong of a word but considering "I" am self-indulgent then I'll let it lay.
This is the main reason for all of the Windows 8 hate. I disliked the Sonar GUI from v3-8 and wasn't going to sink another dime in it. The X series changed that.
Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4, NVidia 750ti, AP2496 Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro, 16GB Ram, AMD FX 6300, Gigabyte GA 970 -UD3 P, nVidia 9800GT, Guitar Port, Terratec EWX 2496
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/31 11:40:42
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DrLumen
leegee
That was a lot of responses, and most of them quite unpleasant, so sorry to not have read them all -- the nastiness and the third-person is off-putting.
Since I have 20% eyesight, I've been adjusting Windows cursors for some time. I find the custom cursors in Sonar do not scale as large as Windows Extra Large cursors do -- screen shots of non-custom cursors are not relevant, since they are no problem.
Someone said they 'don't see the point' to my post -- sorry if the title was not clear, nor my repeated exposition.
Someone got it, though, and mentioned that 'of course' there is a road map --- but no link. Is there a public road map, then? It would be good for both customers and developers. Sonar has so much going for it, I don't want to have to buy what I consider an inferior product because of what I consider an antiquated interface (click different tools to select, delete, add, lengthen/shorten notes? Touch for Solo/Mute/Rec, but not to select the track?)
And to the clever person who pointed out Sonar started later than I used it -- well spotted: I should have said that I used Cakewalk in the late '90s, and switched to Sonar when it was released. Glad you took the time to raise that, it was very helpful.
I will buy BitWig, just to see how it works over a few weeks -- their community certainly seems less self-indulgent.
I would say we are protective. If you go into a (DAW of your choice) forum and immediately request changes I would bet you get the same type of response. I don't know about everybody else but I'm tired of companies changing the UI for the mere sake of change. Changes that are more for style and fashion than functional. Perhaps that is not what you meant but UI changes are a sore spot for me. For someone to come in as a newbie and want changes, changes that would affect how the rest of us use Sonar, seems a bit rude. Perhaps rude is too strong of a word but considering "I" am self-indulgent then I'll let it lay.
Yep. I was in another DAW forum and requested a media browser will most DAWs have. Some buffoon made a rant about how it might mean the whole DAW would have to be redone and it would increase the upgrade cost and it wasn't necessary. The reply was beyond stupid and quite ignorant. The problem that exists in all forums it feature suggestions are interpreted as rants. This place is no different. I made a post inquiring about lifetime updates and it went way OT. The opening thread could have been worded better as Craig pointed out.
Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4, NVidia 750ti, AP2496 Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro, 16GB Ram, AMD FX 6300, Gigabyte GA 970 -UD3 P, nVidia 9800GT, Guitar Port, Terratec EWX 2496
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bgalvin
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/31 12:05:08
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Pragi
Seems that there is another grumbler sonarforumed away .
I have to post because of this mentality exposed... What are you people trying to do? Is this your forum that outsiders are not allowed to enter? Most of you try to browbeat any person that you can... and Craig is doing it as well. That is really shameful. Proudly signed Barry Galvin
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Anderton
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/31 12:21:58
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☄ Helpfulby DrLumen 2016/08/31 13:11:15
bgalvin
Pragi
Seems that there is another grumbler sonarforumed away .
I have to post because of this mentality exposed...
What are you people trying to do? Is this your forum that outsiders are not allowed to enter?
Most of you try to browbeat any person that you can... and Craig is doing it as well.
That is really shameful.
Proudly signed Barry Galvin
Please specify which of my posts here you consider "browbeating." Also please read posts #37 and #44. I hope you would also consider option 3 preferable to your choice of option 2. Obviously plenty of newbies come in here, many with problems or complaints, and they are handled with patience and class. Even people with mean-spirited rants have been talked off the ledge by forumites who know how frustrating DAWs can be, and give the benefit of the doubt. But when someone states a specific problem (large mouse cursor), is given a 100% correct solution for the problem, and then dismisses the assistance as well-meaning, says it's wrong even though there's a screen shot showing it definitely does work, doesn't elaborate that he didn't really mean "mouse cursor" (which is a specific Windows term) so we had no idea why he thought it didn't work, and then says SONAR hasn't changed since 1999, and throws in gratuitous comments like "Does anyone from Cakewalk read these forums?," that doesn't help. Now, maybe that was his way of phrasing "If suggestions are made here, will they be seen by Cakewalk?" but given the other comments, that's not how it came across. It wasn't until post #31 that we had the context to find out what his actual problem was, what his actual issue was with SONAR, and what he actually wanted as a solution. Only then was it possible to look back on his previous posts and see them in a different light, because he had finally given them the context that was lacking originally. Without that context, it acquired the default context of the typical troll template: Praise SONAR, say that however you have a problem with it, then talk about how great some other DAW is. You may consider that "guilt by association," but the forum has burned up a lot of hours trying to help people who came here under false pretenses, so naturally they're a little sensitive about it.
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bvideo
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/31 13:33:24
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Anderton
leegee
Thank you for meaning well when suggesting how to change cursor size in Windows. If you try to do that yourself, you will see that it cursor size is not respected by Sonar.
You are wrong. Changes to the Window cursor persist in SONAR. Here's a screen shot that shows the large cursor persists, as has been verified by several other people in this thread. I don't know what you're doing wrong but if you follow the directions in Post 3 it should work for you as well as it has for others. Maybe you forgot to click on "Apply"?
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I'd count the above (from post #11) not strictly as browbeating, but condescending. Really, "Maybe you forgot to click on "Apply"". Also, the accusation of "wrong" is incorrect. Leegee's observation is correct. Anderton
... (from post #51)
But when someone states a specific problem (large mouse cursor), is given a 100% correct solution for the problem, and then dismisses the assistance as well-meaning, says it's wrong even though there's a screen shot showing it definitely does work, doesn't elaborate that he didn't really mean "mouse cursor" (which is a specific Windows term) so we had no idea why he thought it didn't work, and then says SONAR hasn't changed since 1999, and throws in gratuitous comments like "Does anyone from Cakewalk read these forums?," that doesn't help.
The solution given is not 100% correct. This was pointed out in post #10 and then forcefully denied in post #11. Spelled out more fully in post #31. When I tried setting large Windows cursors, only the borrowed Windows cursors were enlarged in Sonar, not Sonar's own cursors, just as leegee says in post #31. Keith Albright was here to talk about Sonar's cursors not getting larger. So it does appear the given solution is not universally accepted as 100% correct. As far as declaring "mouse cursor" (or originally "mouse pointer" from post #1) to be a specific Windows term (and therefore misleading to the discussion?), I disagree. Yes there are Windows API's for cursors, and Sonar and every other app is probably required use them for any icon that follows the mouse. But clearly Windows apps are not confined to the limited set provided by Windows, as Sonar and other developers know. As far as "dismissing" the assistance as well meaning, it seems the author thanked you (Craig) for the assistance and informed you that you must not have tried the cases where Sonar does not enlarge the cursors. I think that is probably true and not dismissive. On occasion I have given a solution that should have been right, but was wrong. The advisee suggested I might not tried it (in the required scenario), and it turned out they were right. Good opportunity to learn something technical and also something about giving solutions. I'm not saying leegee used a 100% agreeable tone from post#10 forward, but that is subject to interpretation. Broad references to other DAWs and statements like "hasn't moved on" are not very helpful to add to the discussion, even when acknowledging the impedance of legacy code. Much unpleasantness, maybe a bit of browbeating, was added by some other posters, not due to Craig, but maybe due to a blind acceptance of the declared "100% correct solution".
W10 pro, Sonar Platinum, Alesis Multimix 16 FW, MOTU Express 128, Gigabyte Z370 HD3P, i7 8700K, 16 Gigs, ssd + 2 X 2T disks, D50-MEX, JV80, A90EX, M1REX
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Pragi
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/31 13:44:35
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bgalvin
Pragi
Seems that there is another grumbler sonarforumed away .
I have to post because of this mentality exposed...
What are you people trying to do? Is this your forum that outsiders are not allowed to enter?
Most of you try to browbeat any person that you can... and Craig is doing it as well.
That is really shameful.
Proudly signed Barry Galvin
Good points, Craig. @bgalvin Don´´t know how you could misunderstand what I wrote, It simple means that there are so often this kind of negativ and emotional threads/posts in this forum and the community here keeps most of this threads patient, creativ and many times with a sence of humor. I don´t think that this is a moralistic failure .Nothing against newbies, outsiders and minorities , but against grumbleweeds . Be proud of yourself . regards Pragi
post edited by Pragi - 2016/09/01 04:13:05
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Anderton
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/31 15:43:41
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☄ Helpfulby outland144k 2016/08/31 16:17:41
bvideo
I'd count the above (from post #11) not strictly as browbeating, but condescending. Really, "Maybe you forgot to click on "Apply"". He said he came from Logic, which is Mac-only. I really thought he might have forgotten to hit "apply." I do from time to time, and I've been using Windows computers for 21 years and Macs for 32 years. But your reaction shows that often, trying to help someone is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If you don't know someone's knowledge level and assume it's basic when it's not, they can get insulted. If you assume they're experts but they're not, and you don't mention the obvious pilot error issues for fear of insulting them, you won't solve the problem. No good deed is left unpunished.
The solution given is not 100% correct. This was pointed out in post #10 and then forcefully denied in post #11.
It appears either you didn't read what I wrote, or I didn't explain it with sufficient clarity for you to understand. I will try again. Italics and bold in the following are added for emphasis. The problem was presented in post #1 as "I am finding it very hard to use -- largely because the mouse pointer is so small that I spend half my time looking for it." That was the ONLY information we had to go on as to his issue. "Mouse pointer" is a specific, defined Windows term. So in post #3, I presented a collage of screen shots with directions for a 100% effective method for increasing the size of the mouse pointer. Please note it was not possible when writing post #3 to be aware of alterations occurring in future posts to the specific meaning conveyed in his original post. (If you can predict the future, then please PM me whether it's a good idea to sell Apple short or not ) In post #9, he said "Thank you for meaning well when suggesting how to change cursor size in Windows. If you try to do that yourself, you will see that it cursor size is not respected by Sonar. There was still no mention that he meant anything other than the mouse pointer, which was reinforced when he said change cursor size in Windows. When you change the mouse pointer in Windows, the mouse pointer stays the same size when you use it in SONAR. SONAR does indeed respect the mouse pointer size. I still did not know, because he did not say, that he was referring to the cursors internal to SONAR. I feel it's unfair to expect me to see into the future, and respond to a subsequent post that didn't exist at the time I wrote my reply, and finally explained the issue in sufficient detail for me to understand that it wasn't really about the mouse pointer after all. My next post was post #20, where I said I didn't think he was a troll, that using the large cursor really improved my quality of computer life, and recommended he get the biggest honkin' screen he could if he was going to use touch. Then I injected some humor with the lemons into lemonade part, to emphasize that regardless of the direction of the thread, it provided benefits. My next post gave props to DrLumen for making an excellent point. My next post responded to a comment someone made that had nothing to do with the OP. My next post, #37, was the first one after where, in post #31, he explained the issue in a way where I could finally understand exactly what he meant. My post was marked "Helpful" and if you think it represents browbeating, then we must have different dictionaries. Finally, you did not indicate any instances of browbeating on my part. However, you did prove that I do not have fully functional pre-cognitive abilities yet, and can respond only to posts that happened in the past, not posts that may or may not happen in the future. I'm working on trying to fix that, but it's not easy I still recommend option 3
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chuckebaby
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Re: Disappointed with interface - plans to improve?
2016/08/31 16:20:39
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☄ Helpfulby outland144k 2016/08/31 17:06:40
bgalvin
Pragi
Seems that there is another grumbler sonarforumed away .
I have to post because of this mentality exposed...
What are you people trying to do? Is this your forum that outsiders are not allowed to enter?
Most of you try to browbeat any person that you can... and Craig is doing it as well.
That is really shameful.
Proudly signed Barry Galvin
you signed that comment proudly ? a lot of "us" help users solve their problems 7 days a week on this forum (that includes Craig) you cant always please everyone and you cant always be right. but when you help others as much as Craig does then you have the right not to please everyone. your the one who should be ashamed. If you wanted to make a bigger difference on this forum you would be here more often helping users solve their issues and not dropping by once every 2 years preaching the gospel of how a forum should be run.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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