Helpful ReplyDisk Image software

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Cactus Music
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2018/02/22 01:52:18 (permalink)

Disk Image software

I have set up an Acer VA 70 Laptop ( i5 8GB RAM)  as my portable studio second DAW. 
The Acer came with a 500 GB main drive and that's what I have everything on. I had done a fresh install of W7 and built up from there with only recording stuff. As you all know this takes a lot of time these days. 
Everything works better than expected but-- I need to put an SSD drive in it as it takes a good minute to boot up. I'm not used to that anymore :( 
 
Normally I would just start over again, but my version of W7 takes a lot of updating to come up to speed and there is all this 3rd party authorization stuff... . So I'm thinking of a disk image and simply swapping the drives. 
I have Easeus free version which claims it can do this.  https://www.easeus.com/backup-software/?ad&gclid=Cj0KCQiAzrTUBRCnARIsAL0mqcxkwL_R2kMozQyIkP5CvzOzeDFimh5MMNyRpd-n5SrEKv7RAUDrEuwaAsiREALw_wcB
 
I've used it for backups but have never done an image before. Is it that simple? 
Any advice would be much appreciated. 

Johnny V  
Cakelab  
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3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#1
BobF
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Re: Disk Image software 2018/02/22 02:04:15 (permalink)
I've used Reflect for a coupla SSD conversions with no problems.  Backup/restore works better than cloning for this IMX
 

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#2
JohnKenn
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Re: Disk Image software 2018/02/22 03:13:52 (permalink)
Guys,
 
Just struggling to understand this now. Very timely post for me.
 
Have the licensed version of Acronis 2015 on 3 computers, and it is a bunch of crap. Will not clone anything without failure messages or a 2 minute restart taking everything back to the OS without anything cloned. Either from the OS or from their rescue disc. Acronis 2012 did seem to work.
 
Todo free backup in earlier versions is solid and let you clone TO an external disc, but had you caught ransomed if you tried to clone back FROM the image where they flashed that the function was only available with the paid version. Even had the mercy to direct you to the website to pay 30 dollars or whatever. Don't know if this has changed.
 
Today did an image copy using the win 7 internal thing, and created a separate CD rescue disc to facilitate reinstall of the system image. Seems to have worked, but have not tried to reinstall yet from the external hard drive..
 
My question, from win 7 to win 10, is there anything needed beyond the native image cloning tool that is already provided. Do we really need any external third party software any more? Anybody with any experience with how reliable the windows included image burner is?
 
John
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abacab
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Re: Disk Image software 2018/02/22 03:44:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2018/02/22 20:28:29
I swapped my hard drive for a Samsung EVO SSD a couple years ago.  The supplied Samsung cloning utility got the job done and it was painless. 
 
1. Cloned my hard drive to the new drive.  Two ways to connect: a) use a USB adapter for the new drive for the cloning process (probably the only option with laptop);  or b) use a spare SATA port on a desktop.
2. Swap drives, new for old.
3. Boot from the new drive.  Done!
 
It is important to understand the difference between cloning and imaging.  Some tools can do either method.
 
1. Cloning makes a complete copy of the hard drive onto another drive as a mirror image, ready to go.
2. Imaging uses a process similar to cloning, but the drive copy ends up in a file container, called an image file.  This file is portable and you can store multiple images on a single drive as an image repository.  These images contain exact representations of the source drive, but are not 'ready to go'.  The image file must first be restored to a suitable target drive before it can be booted from.

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#4
JohnKenn
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Re: Disk Image software 2018/02/22 04:14:02 (permalink)
Thanks abacab.
 
Still fuzzy on the difference and had seen a reference like you said to having multiple "images" on a disc.
From the standpoint of recovering from a meltdown where you may have to transfer an image or a clone to say a new hard drive, any advantages one over the other?
Clueless in Seattle (or close to there anyway)
 
John
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abacab
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Re: Disk Image software 2018/02/22 04:43:44 (permalink)
JohnKenn
Thanks abacab.
 
Still fuzzy on the difference and had seen a reference like you said to having multiple "images" on a disc.
From the standpoint of recovering from a meltdown where you may have to transfer an image or a clone to say a new hard drive, any advantages one over the other?
Clueless in Seattle (or close to there anyway)
 
John




You don't 'transfer' a clone.  A cloned drive is a one for one physical drive.  You can swap a cloned drive with the original, for example, by physically unplugging the cables and moving things around.
 
Having an 'image' is a way of storing the complete contents of a drive in a file container.  When you restore an image file to a new or exiting disk, you will then have a clone of the source drive, but only once you have completed the 'restore' job with your chosen app.
 
So for upgrading disk hardware, the 'cloning' method is the most direct way to go.
 
For system backup and recovery however, drive 'imaging' is more practical.  You can store multiple versions of the drive image file on a large external drive.  For example, full daily, weekly, & monthly images can be scheduled and retained, while setting limits on the max number of each before the oldest gets deleted.  That helps you manage the space on the backup drive. 
 
I have used several programs for this over the years, including Acronis and the built in Windows 7 image.  But currently I am using Macrium Reflect Free, which fully meets my needs.
 
A nice feature here is that you can directly mount any Macrium image as a virtual drive with a Windows drive letter (by double clicking the image file name), allowing you to browse the files & folders in an image file, and copy them anywhere with drag and drop.  Since I take daily images, I can skip file backups this way, and recover anything I might want from an image file without restoring it. 

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#6
JohnKenn
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Re: Disk Image software 2018/02/22 15:46:49 (permalink)
Abacab,
Good explanation. Think I got a handle on it now. Thanks for your time and for the information on Macrium.
John
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abacab
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Re: Disk Image software 2018/02/22 16:58:03 (permalink)
JohnKenn
Abacab,
Good explanation. Think I got a handle on it now. Thanks for your time and for the information on Macrium.
John


 
Great, good luck with that!
 
The only real shortcoming with Macrium Reflect Free is that you cannot post on their support forum without a paid license.  But it is a fairly full featured product that should meet most home user needs.  https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree
 
The bright side is that the user guide is very well written and explains everything.  Complete user guide in HTML and PDF formats >> https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/

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#8
Cactus Music
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Re: Disk Image software 2018/02/22 17:19:51 (permalink)
Thanks Abacab, The new SSD is a Samsung Evo and I never looked on the disk that came with it so your method is exactly what I will do. I'm lucky as this laptop actually has a second drive bay which I can easily use. I'll just put the new drive in there and go at it. Thanks this made it easier than I thought. 
 
Only issue I have to deal with is I allowed all the VST libraries like Air and Dim pro to go to the C drive as it was big enough. The SSD is only a 240 so I'll have to move the libraries first.. that will be fun and games. 
 

Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#9
abacab
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Re: Disk Image software 2018/02/22 19:24:47 (permalink)
Cactus Music
Thanks Abacab, The new SSD is a Samsung Evo and I never looked on the disk that came with it so your method is exactly what I will do. I'm lucky as this laptop actually has a second drive bay which I can easily use. I'll just put the new drive in there and go at it. Thanks this made it easier than I thought. 
 
Only issue I have to deal with is I allowed all the VST libraries like Air and Dim pro to go to the C drive as it was big enough. The SSD is only a 240 so I'll have to move the libraries first.. that will be fun and games. 
 




Just a quick heads up about the dual drive bay setup in the laptop. 
 
I have heard reports that you should only have one drive connected when you attempt to boot with the new SSD, until the BIOS gets things sorted out with the new SSD in the boot position.
 
Apparently just swapping the drives after the cloning process can confuse the BIOS, so that it may not recognize and boot from the SSD, if it can still detect the original boot drive.

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#10
mettelus
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Re: Disk Image software 2018/02/22 20:42:05 (permalink)
Cactus Music
Only issue I have to deal with is I allowed all the VST libraries like Air and Dim pro to go to the C drive as it was big enough. The SSD is only a 240 so I'll have to move the libraries first.. that will be fun and games. 




I was going to make a comment about a partition for imaging purposes, but 240GB is pretty much ideal. As you build up the new machine, using directory junctions (although it seems painful at first) is a good way to keep the OS drive relatively small (256GB or so, mine is running around 110GB used of a 256GB on a new computer ATM). Where that pays off is in case of an OS crash where re-imaging is the quickest way to get back up and running (the smaller that drive is (within reason), the quicker it will image/restore).
 
In the case of a drive failure, a partition won't save your bacon, but the partition will also save on the storage space required on the second medium as well. Unfortunately laptops have limited real estate in them, but a partition is easier to work with during the inital loading of the machine (especially if it is a 1TB drive or something).

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abacab
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Re: Disk Image software 2018/02/22 23:02:57 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pentimentosound 2018/02/23 21:01:39
I am finding that the Samsung EVO 850 250GB SSD has been the perfect Windows boot drive for my system.  It also holds all of my apps including my DAW software, and all plugins (excluding sample libraries and additional DAW content like loops and samples, etc.). 
 
The sample libraries and content are stored on a secondary SATA internal drive partition, which gets imaged separately. I have another partition on the secondary drive for my installer archive, which has another image job to take care of that.  My secondary partitions get imaged once per week, but the boot drive gets it done daily.
 
I am currently running the SSD with about 160GB used, and it takes about 30 mins to run a full image out to a USB3 drive using Macrium Reflect.

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#12
Cactus Music
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Re: Disk Image software 2018/02/23 01:43:09 (permalink)
Thanks for the heads up. I won't put the data drive back in until all is finished. I'm tempted to order a second SSD as I really don't need a lot of room on this machine. 
 
Yes i find a 240 is plenty of room for me and look at this screenshot from my desktop DAW. 
 
I have all software and VST libraries installed default location so I haven't moved anything from the C drive. 
It's only half full. And you see the Sonar data drive G is a small 120 GB and is only half full. It's because at this point I'm mostly working with midi. All my back ups are on the 900GB E drive. But the Laptop will only need the projects we will be working on. That's about 50. It's all the backing tracks for my duo. But we will record the real instruments and vocals as potential albums to or ? to hand out at gigs. I will show my partner how to press the R key and he can record his parts at his house and take as much time as he needs. 


Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#13
abacab
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Re: Disk Image software 2018/02/23 01:54:24 (permalink)
I think that you will enjoy having an SSD as the main boot drive!  My desktop ran like an entirely new computer when I made the switch.
 
Unfortunately, my Acer laptop would require a complete teardown to replace the HDD.  I didn't buy it for music, rather to use as a portable office... but it seems to run my DAW software as a 2nd computer fairly well.  Maybe one of these days I will expand the RAM and add the SSD.  The mobile i5 seems to run fairly well otherwise...

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#14
Cactus Music
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Re: Disk Image software 2018/02/23 04:50:18 (permalink)
I have SSD as my C drives on all my computers with this Laptop being the only one without. That's why I really notice how slow it is to boot, I think it's even a 5400 RPM!  And W7 is slow anyhow. You really do get used to W10 and an SSD and computers are up and working in a matter of seconds,, not minutes. 
 
I ordered the Samsung Evo from new egg and just waiting it's arrival. I tried to clone the drive on my old DAW desktop to an older 220 GB laptop drive just to experiment but the Samsung app is only allows a Samsung as the new drive. So then I tried EaseUS and it didn't want to copy to the older drive re something about the different type of drive. GPT vs MBR
Just on a whim I thought I'd just Drag and drop the whole OS drive folders to this older drive... after 1 hour it's at 3% and it's only 45 GB total.. so Don't expect it will work. It was just a test so no biggy. 
 
I'm just cleaning up the Laptops C drive and moving everything to a back up external as well as to the Data drive. The Data drive is only 220 GB I thought it was bigger. 

Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#15
abacab
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Re: Disk Image software 2018/02/23 16:28:40 (permalink)
You can use Macrium Reflect Free to clone to another internal or external drive.  This version support direct disk cloning.  This would be useful for testing, or cloning to another brand of drive.
 
From the Macrium Reflect v7 User Guide
 

Disk cloning

With Macrium Reflect, you can clone your system disks to enable you to swap failed disks out of your system and
get things back up and running again in minutes.

Cloning is often confused with imaging. The process is identical but instead of storing data to a file, it replicates
volume contents and disk structures to an alternative device. When the cloning process is complete, the target disk
is identical to the original and contains a duplicate of all volumes, files, operating systems and applications.

Note: Any data on the target disk prior to the cloning process will be erased.

Cloning a disk is particularly useful to upgrade an existing hard disk and in the event of a hard drive failure, you can
simply replace the failed disk with a clone and have your system up and running again in minutes. However, cloning
a disk is not an efficient way of backing up your data if it changes frequently because the clone will only contain one
point in time as there is no 'Backup Chain' history that is available with Disk Images. Also, Disk Images can be
compressed and saved to any location.

1. Select the disk you wish to clone in the main application window and Click 'Clone this disk'.

2. In the wizard that opens Click Select a disk to clone to...

3. Select the hard disk you wish to clone to.

4. If you do not want to modify the order or size of partitions of the clone, click Next. This is the default
behavior.


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#16
Cactus Music
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Re: Disk Image software 2018/02/23 20:43:30 (permalink)
Thanks.. I will try that. 

Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#17
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