Helpful ReplyDistortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export

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Brian Walton
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2017/09/05 14:10:13 (permalink)

Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export

Running Sonar Platinum 2017-07 (but also had this problem on previous versions)
 
When I'm ready to export a song - all tracks going to the master bus.  On almost every export I get a split second of distortion at the beginning of the exported track (44.1 16bit mixdown).  Or some something that sounds like the trail end of a strong reverb applied to the 1st note.
 
After that, the track sounds fine.  The only way I seem to be able to avoid this is to save, close out my Sonar session, then reopen and immediately export (without hitting play at any point).  
 
Anyone else experienced this, or know how to solve it?  After mixing down 15 songs over the weekend, it was a real time waster to have to do it all over again.  
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chuckebaby
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/05 14:15:49 (permalink)
Any midi tracks there Brian ?
Look for a phantom note at 101:00 Its happened to me before.
 
Cant say ive heard of this before, especially with Save/close/reopen and it solves the problem.
you might be able to work around it by killing the audio engine (in the control bar) before you start the export.
But that's only a band aid till we can figure out the real culprit. which im guessing a plug in or something triggering midi data (Example: Drums).

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jonboper
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/05 14:31:44 (permalink)
I believe I've had this before, on a few projects, and as Brian said always with a time-based effect. Is it as if the song was playing on repeat and the end note is looping back into the beginning?

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Brian Walton
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/05 15:05:34 (permalink)
chuckebaby
Any midi tracks there Brian ?
Look for a phantom note at 101:00 Its happened to me before.
 
Cant say ive heard of this before, especially with Save/close/reopen and it solves the problem.
you might be able to work around it by killing the audio engine (in the control bar) before you start the export.
But that's only a band aid till we can figure out the real culprit. which im guessing a plug in or something triggering midi data (Example: Drums).


 
There is usually at least one MIDI track on my projects (a drum program such as AD, EZ Drummer, Drum Core are used frequently), I'll check on the phantom note, but many times it seems like a legitimate note (but distortion or an effect is applied to it that shouldn't be there)  

jonboper
 Is it as if the song was playing on repeat and the end is looping back into the beginning?



Yes, or as if the trailing effect at the end of the song is being applied to the 1st note (but also some distortion is also usually added in addition to say "reverb"
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chuckebaby
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/05 18:27:12 (permalink)
Could be an automation node ?
I know personally I do a lot of nonsense automation, like silencing the beginning of my tracks with automation.
 
you don't notice it though in real time when listening to it ?
Hope the bump helps man

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Zargg
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/05 18:28:58 (permalink)
Hi. I have seen this on a few occasions some time back. I have usually either stop/started the Audio Engine, or hit play, followed by stop. And all has been well.
It has happened so seldom, that I never tried troubleshooting it.
All the best.
 

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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/05 18:47:24 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2017/09/08 18:23:33
Sounds like an Fx tail that hasn't finished sounding but gets rendered when you Export.
 
It’s a good idea to add an extra measure to the end of your project to contain any reverb tails that your effects produce.

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Zargg
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/05 19:03:30 (permalink)
IIRC, I have had this happen to me when stopping a project before the end, and then exported.
But as Bristol_Jonesey says, it sounds like an effect hasn't stopped sounding on my end.

Ken Nilsen
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jonboper
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/05 20:56:41 (permalink)
Brian Walton

Yes, or as if the trailing effect at the end of the song is being applied to the 1st note (but also some distortion is also usually added in addition to say "reverb"




This is exactly what I've experienced. Seems like a lot of us have heard from time to time.
 
Zargg
 
IIRC, I have had this happen to me when stopping a project before the end, and then exported.
But as Bristol_Jonesey says, it sounds like an effect hasn't stopped sounding on my end.
 

 
I never thought that much about what it was, just took it as an artifact. There was a song where I liked it so much that it inspired an introductory tone:
 
https://booleanoperators.bandcamp.com/track/gumming-for-summing
 
That saxophone tone at the beginning was the result of falling in love with the mess.

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Brian Walton
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/05 23:33:28 (permalink)
chuckebaby
Could be an automation node ?
I know personally I do a lot of nonsense automation, like silencing the beginning of my tracks with automation.
 
you don't notice it though in real time when listening to it ?
Hope the bump helps man


Nope, even happens with projects that are jazz related with no automation (dynamics within the players)
 
Also is not heard in real time playback, thus the frustration when it happens on export
 
Zargg
Hi. I have seen this on a few occasions some time back. I have usually either stop/started the Audio Engine, or hit play, followed by stop. And all has been well.
It has happened so seldom, that I never tried troubleshooting it.
All the best.
 


This was a good thought, but the start/stop audio engine doesn't fix it either and I tried multiple combinations
 
Bristol_Jonesey
Sounds like an Fx tail that hasn't finished sounding but gets rendered when you Export.
 
It’s a good idea to add an extra measure to the end of your project to contain any reverb tails that your effects produce.


Also a good thought, but doesn't seem to solve my issue.  Still happens with extra "blank" time at the end of the track.  Still get a stutter/distorted note/heavy effect processed note at the very beginning of the exported file.
 
 
chuckebaby
Any midi tracks there Brian ?
Look for a phantom note at 101:00 Its happened to me before.
 
 


No phantom note at 101:00 - confirmed on multiple projects. 
 
Just confused...
 
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jonboper
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/06 00:19:43 (permalink)
For me this has happened in plugin-heavy projects with dozens of audio and synth tracks...not a common phenomenon. Full toll.

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Brian Walton
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/06 00:53:28 (permalink)
jonboper
For me this has happened in plugin-heavy projects with dozens of audio and synth tracks...not a common phenomenon. Full toll.


I rarely use more than 8-10 tracks, and only a couple of which would be synths.  Though I do have VSTs/ProChannel on just about every track for in the box mixing.
 
It happens on the majority of projects I export assuming I've been doing some play back of the project before exporting.  
 
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/06 06:11:27 (permalink)
Bristol Jonesey spots the issue, but isn't the original solution to this anymore in the settings? Those descriptions bring to mind "Play effects tails after stop"" . If it's not checked, pressing stop leaves the reverb tails in the buffer, and they're the first thing you hear when you press "play" again.

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Boydie
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/06 06:58:49 (permalink)
I regularly get this and it is very annoying - I often have to use Adobe SoundBooth to trim the first section of the track to remove the offending artefact

I do notice it more if I am using GUITAR RIG - what plugins and effects are you using?

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chuckebaby
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/06 11:13:20 (permalink)
Boydie
I do notice it more if I am using GUITAR RIG - what plugins and effects are you using?



This is a good point.
If it is indeed a plug in issue, you might be able to narrow down your issue by removing some plug ins then doing an export test until you can figure out which plug in it is.

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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/06 12:52:47 (permalink)
Kalle Rantaaho
Bristol Jonesey spots the issue, but isn't the original solution to this anymore in the settings? Those descriptions bring to mind "Play effects tails after stop"" . If it's not checked, pressing stop leaves the reverb tails in the buffer, and they're the first thing you hear when you press "play" again.


I spent some time last night going through the menus looking for that very setting, but failed miserably.

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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/06 12:54:33 (permalink)
Another way would be to briefly hit the spacebar, then hit it again, immediately before Exporting.
 
This would clear out any buffers, and if you still have the problem after doing this, then you have a different problem.
 

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Brian Walton
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/06 14:03:44 (permalink)
chuckebaby
Boydie
I do notice it more if I am using GUITAR RIG - what plugins and effects are you using?



This is a good point.
If it is indeed a plug in issue, you might be able to narrow down your issue by removing some plug ins then doing an export test until you can figure out which plug in it is.


 
I get the problem even when only using products that were supplied with SPLAT.  (though my recent projects did include Waves J37, and sometimes SSL E)

Bristol_Jonesey
Another way would be to briefly hit the spacebar, then hit it again, immediately before Exporting.
 
This would clear out any buffers, and if you still have the problem after doing this, then you have a different problem.
 


Also doesn't solve the problem on my machine.  


#18
Brian Walton
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/08 13:30:55 (permalink)
Opened a Sonar Project yesterday.  Immediately exported.  Got the same problem clipping/distortion at the start of the first note problem again (and I have zero distortion effects applied for the record).  
 
I'll try to update to "08" and see if it still happens this weekend.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/08 14:55:11 (permalink)
I have had this happen too, but only in playback, never had it show as an export..
And I'll be with Jonesey on this, it's audio stored in a buffer that does not get released. For me it is usually a crash cymbal tail which is often the last note of a drum track.
And I will hear it almost everytime I do an export when the export has just finished and releases the audio engine. But it's never appeared in the exported file.  
I always leave 2 measures, 1= blank, 2 = count in which I chop off during mastering. 
So if it persists, add a blank measure to the start. 
 
Oh and ya,, what ever happened to the " play effects tails" option? I guess they figured only a fool would turn it off so nuked it to unclutter the menu. So we will assume it is always on now. 

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Brian Walton
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/08 15:21:05 (permalink)
Cactus Music
I have had this happen too, but only in playback, never had it show as an export..
And I'll be with Jonesey on this, it's audio stored in a buffer that does not get released. For me it is usually a crash cymbal tail which is often the last note of a drum track.
And I will hear it almost everytime I do an export when the export has just finished and releases the audio engine. But it's never appeared in the exported file.  
I always leave 2 measures, 1= blank, 2 = count in which I chop off during mastering. 
So if it persists, add a blank measure to the start. 
 
Oh and ya,, what ever happened to the " play effects tails" option? I guess they figured only a fool would turn it off so nuked it to unclutter the menu. So we will assume it is always on now. 


But I started computer fresh, opened Sonar without playing a single note, and exported so that kind of negates the stored audio theory (though that is what I would have assumed as well)
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Cactus Music
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/08 18:10:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Bristol_Jonesey 2017/09/08 20:47:08
Well that's certainly is weird,
Only thing I might try is to find out which track is causing this issue by tediously exporting each track. 
I would certainly start with midi first. 
If you have sub busses you could start with each of those to quickly narrow it down. 

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Unknowen
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/08 21:27:14 (permalink)
I've had this as well. I normally bounce clip on the midi track. and delete up to the 1st note then bounce clip and pull the clean area to start. then bounce to wave.  if it's a midi issues.
Same would apply for a wave track. :)

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Unknowen
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/08 21:35:42 (permalink)
Cactus Music
 
I always leave 2 measures, 1= blank, 2 = count in which I chop off during mastering. 
So if it persists, add a blank measure to the start. 
 
 


YUP! you can select all tracks and slid them together a couple bars forward. :)

Hay look,
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Distortion and or Trailing Effects on the First Note Upon Export 2017/09/08 22:02:27 (permalink)
11Dreams
Cactus Music
 
I always leave 2 measures, 1= blank, 2 = count in which I chop off during mastering. 
So if it persists, add a blank measure to the start. 
 
 


YUP! you can select all tracks and slid them together a couple bars forward. :)


Or you could just Ripple Edit

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