Mr.Oscar.Edward
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Dithering
Hi,
When mixing down audio, how can I decide if I should choose Triangular or Rectangular?
Thank you
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Kalle Rantaaho
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First of all, do you know when to use any kind of dithering?
It is only used when the bit rate of the project is converted downwards. In most cases it means from 24 bit to 16 bit. Changing sample rate doesn't require dithering, and any project (or audio file) should be dithered only once, as the very last process.
This means dithering not often used in the mixdown phase. The most (??) common way is to maintain the higher sample rate and bit depth 'till the project is finished/mastered as a stereo wav.
If that all is clear to you, just ignore me. I just snapped on the "when mixing down audio...".
Which dithering method is best...I don't know. I always use the default.
SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre - Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc. The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
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Cormega
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I find myself lately not using dither at all...never.
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tarsier
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When mixing down audio, how can I decide if I should choose Triangular or Rectangular Rectangular doesn't remove all the quantization distortion when truncating, Triangular does. Don't use rectangular, use triangular.
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CJaysMusic
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The pow-1, pow-2 and pow-3 are the best dithers. Like a poster already said, rectangle isnt good. Triangle is good for a default dither setting in sonar, but for mixdowns you should use one of the Pows. Pop-3 In my opinion is the best and its the one I use when dithering in sonar
Cj
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johnnyV
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kevo
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johnnyV
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kevo I got lost in that link big time, excellent reading I also found this link which was even more interesting I highly recommend a look see. They did some listening tests etc. Anyhow after this I will no longer be dithering. ever, my level of recording quality will not suffer I'm sure. http://www.3daudioinc.com...test-dither-jitter-A-D
post edited by johnnyV - 2010/04/08 13:32:02
Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional Scarlett 6i6Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedalsTascam Gear= DR 40 - US1641 -Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1 home buildTaylor mini GS - G& L Tribute Tele - 72 Fender Princeton - TC BH 250 - Mooer and Outlaw Pedals Korg 05/RW
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Jim Roseberry
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Only enable dither when reducing bit-depth.
ie: When bouncing down to 16Bits to burn on a CD
It serves no purpose when mixing (just adds noise)...
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bitflipper
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http://www.3daudioinc.com...test-dither-jitter-A-D Best quote from that exchange (from Scott Massey): "If it's so critical about when and how to dither, how come no one can figure it out for themselves? People are always asking questions about it. If there's a big sonic difference between doing it right and doing it wrong, then how come people (engineers) can't even tell whether they're doing it right or wrong?" Sums it up brilliantly. I wish I had said that.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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johnnyV
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I thought so too! So bitflipper are you dithering tonight? ;?
Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional Scarlett 6i6Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedalsTascam Gear= DR 40 - US1641 -Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1 home buildTaylor mini GS - G& L Tribute Tele - 72 Fender Princeton - TC BH 250 - Mooer and Outlaw Pedals Korg 05/RW
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geetsifly
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Hey Guys,
Is there any value in enabling dithering in the audio panel, as opposed to just doing it during exports as it pertains to freezing and bouncing? The manual says this field is used to tell Sonar how to handle downward conversion of bit depth during these operations. For that matter where do you normally set your rendering bit depth? I am assuming the rendering bit depth value would have something to do with the descision making process.
George
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Jim Roseberry
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Sums it up brilliantly. I wish I had said that. Going against the grain here... but I don't see the brilliance in that logic.  Lots of folks struggle with mixing (well)... and lots of folks are learning. If you setup a test where you can hear a long decay go all the way down into the noise-floor... I guarantee that anyone with half decent ears will be able to tell the difference between no dither... and one of the better dither algorithms. It's the difference between a very smooth fade out... and one that breaks up into a nasty/grungy mess. Sure, under typical listening scenarios... many folks may not notice the subtle improvement offered by the better dither algorithms... But what if you took this attitude across the entire recording/mixing process? Heck, you're only losing a minor bit of fidelity at each stage. What does it matter if you record all 48 tracks with the highest peak on each track only reaching -24dB. You can boost each track 6-12dB (easily) after the fact. Why bother shielding that guitar/bass? The noise picked up by the single-coil Pups is hardly noticeable when the track is blasting away. Why worry about using cross-fades for seamless splices? When the track in chugging along, you can't really hear the small pops/ticks from those cuts made at non zero-crossing points. Where do you draw the line? Sloppy technique might not always be painfully obvious... but each step is cumulative. Why not at least attempt to maximize potential fidelity? When the end user has access to a quality dither algorithm like Pow-r, it's plain silly (IMO) to avoid using it where it would better preserve fidelity (when reducing bit-depth).
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bitflipper
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Going against the grain here... but I don't see the brilliance in that logic. Jim, the brilliance is that it reminds us to keep a sense of perspective, something often lost in discussions about audio quality. We obsess over trivial concerns such as what kind of dithering algorithm to use while blithely ignoring vastly more important factors such as rampant limiter-abuse. We fret over the transparency of our converters and then add grit with tube preamps and harmonic exciters. We want every last bit to toggle in perfect synchronicity with every dancing air molecule in the room, and then proceed to smudge it all together with reverb and faux-tape saturation. Perspective means giving a subject a level of attention that is commensurate with the amount of impact it has on the quality of our recordings. If you cannot hear a difference between two methods, move on to something that does make a difference.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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