Do I need a mixer?

Hey Sonar People,

OK I'm really new to the home recording scene so bear with me.  I'm not going to get into detail about the equipment I have because it's really a non issue in this instance.  Or at least I think it's a non issue.

Problem I am having is with getting sound out of both Sonar and my computer (YouTube) at the same time.  I've combed through the various threads addressing this topic and come to the conclusion that this is a driver issue and the solution is to tell Sonar to talk to the Interface and Window's to talk to it's on board sound card.  Not a problem there.  The issue is getting both devices to talk to my computer speakers.  

Yes I said computer speakers.   Upgraded Studio Speakers are on the horizon.    

My computer speakers are quite nice for computer speakers.  They have a Base speaker which provides signal to the pair of desk speakers.  Base speaker is powered.  Right now the computer speakers are connected to my interface via the headphone jack.   This working out as long as I don't try and run both YouTube and Sonar at the same time.  

On the computer itself the audio out is not connected to anything.  What I tried to do was connect both signals into the sub woofer but the sub woofer spit that out and called me every name in the book.  

So I realize I'm going to have to get the audio out of the pc some other way.  I saw a cheap little mixer for 39.00 at GC.  Would this allow my computer and the interface to talk to my computer speakers??   Also I saw these M Audio Studio Pro 3 speakers also at GC.  This pair has an Aux In jack.  Would that allow me to skip the Mixer?

Thanks for listening.

In other words, Windows is using their own drivers (usually WDM/KS) drivers) and Sonar has to be using ASIO drivers to not conflict.

you can resolve this without a mixer or speakers with aux outputs until you can afford to get nearfields.

My computer speakers are quite nice for computer speakers. They have a Base speaker which provides signal to the pair of desk speakers. Base speaker is powered. Right now the computer speakers are connected to my interface via the headphone jack. This working out as long as I don't try and run both YouTube and Sonar at the same time.

and

Problem I am having is with getting sound out of both Sonar and my computer (YouTube) at the same time.

this is a function of the soundcard's internal routing ONLY.  most soundcards have the routing capabilities to do that.  in soundblasters, it's called WHAT U HEAR, in m-audio soundcards, it's called MONITOR MIX, other soundcards call it different things.  we need to know what soundcard you're using to help more, and even then if someone else doesn't have the same soundcard who knows how to do the same thing, you'll need to find it in your software mixer for the soundcard anyway.

In other words, Windows is using their own drivers (usually WDM/KS) drivers) and Sonar has to be using ASIO drivers to not conflict.

sorry, but this is not completely correct.  windows uses the drivers that come with the soundcard and the soundcard drivers or software tells windows what to use.  for example in my case, I have a MOTU Ultralite.  in my MOTU AUDIO CONSOLE (the interface for the MOTU drivers), I have selected USEWAVERT for WINDOWS AUDIO. 

all soundcards don't allow you to choose which types of drivers for windows to use, in that case it's possible that windows will use WDM/KS while you're using ASIO in sonar, but that doesn't matter as long as the drivers are written to be able to handle that situation (which all recording soundcard drivers should be).  ASIO's protocol doesn't prevent this, it only prevents 2 soundcards from being used at the same time unless they are designed to be seen by the drivers as ONE soundcard.  but that's a different subject.

regardless, windows will use the drivers that the soundcard has available for it and sonar will use the drivers you choose from the available options and both can be used at the same time.

I have done this for several years with probably 5 or 6 different soundcards; Soundblaster LIVE!, M-audio Delta 44, EMU-0404, MOTU Ultralite and even the onboard Realtek soundcard (there are instructions on how to get the realtek to do this on the forum in a sticky - I think that's in the Sonar Home Studio forum).

I am running on Windows 7
M Audio Fast Track Interface.  It's just Fast Track nothing else behind that.
Realtek High Def Audio is the sound card.

when I run just Sonar I have no problems at all.  Everything runs smoothly.
When I run just YouTube I have no problems.
It's when I try to run both at the same time.

right now internal sound card is disabled.  When I do enable it I can see output meter dancing and I can hook up headphones and get sound.  However the signal is not going anywhere via the output jack.   Locating the sound card is easy..  Getting that signal to go thru the M Audio Interface is another thing.


I really don't know what to do.  I've done everything I can think of.


Beagle..  anyway you could point me to that sticky? "


this is a function of the soundcard's internal routing ONLY.  most soundcards have the routing capabilities to do that. "
 
You hit the nail on the head there..  Realtek I hope has that ability.  but where is it?   OK on to coach a basketball game..    be back in an hour or so.

  


Hacker..  I can get the on board sound card to play through my headphone..  However I really need to be able to run YouTube and Sonar simultaneously through the same speakers.  I think I need some magic beanstalks.
 

OK Beagle..  How do I tell windows to use  fast track without causing the problems I'm having now?  I have been running (or at least I think I have been running) Windows through Fast Track.  Realtek has been disabled.

I disabled the realtek so the only sound card is the Fast Track.  

I'm getting an error now when I pull up YouTube and Sonar at the same time.
"ASIO sample Rate not Supported by one of the USB interfaces.  Please check your sync settings in the Control Panel"

This is the circle I've been stuck in for 12 hours now.  How do I get these sample rates sync'd up?


I think I've solved my problem.   I think mistakenly I kept selecting the wrong sample rate in the settings.  
Everything is working great.

Thanks for everyone's input.   

Hey Beagle are you a Longhorn?


OK new problem.   

Same error message came up when I powered up my MIDI keyboard.   Playback of a project was in progress.  but Sonar seemed to lose the ASIO driver.

well I made all of the changes through the little speaker Icon at the bottom..

in window's playback I have as listed.
 
Under playback line properties 

24 bit 44100 hz Studio Quality

Under Recording I have 
24 bit 44100 hz Studio Quality


As of right now Sonar does not even have  M Audio as an option.. In fact nothing is listed there. 
running the Wave Profiler under the WDM setting will restore that.. However. 

When I do this it displays 44100 hz Channels 1,2 -Bits 16,24 (4 bytes), 32- OK
   

RealTek has been disabled.

what happens is I lose the ability to hear anything.  After that the driver just vanishes..


Gives a message that audio device is no longer available. and poof..  


When I run the profiler under the WDm/KS it restores the Fast Track option but it also restores all of the other devices along with it.  RealTek AT HD Audio

So I go back
under the ASIO option under the Play back and recording Tab.  When I hit apply I get the same error message. and the ASIO driver is no longer there...


Maybe the Keyboard was just coincidence.


OK so I'll remove RealTek from the BIOS.  be back in a few.  Thanks for your help Beagle.


I've done everything I can think of..  RealTek is gone from my bios..  There is one more option that I don't know that I can get rid of..  My ATI HDMI output..   That is still showing up but it is disabled.

At this point Sonar will not start up at all.. Every time I try to select the ASIO option it gives me the same error.

Beagle..  Yes there were instances where I'd have to reboot my computer so I could click on the X1 icon to get it going.

As of right now.  I have sonar up but no sound.


I've tried every setting..  I've gone from 24 to 16 bit..    Still nothing.  


One thing is in windows when I set the sample rate it throws back this message that the device is already in use..  By what??  I don't have anything else running.

I've tried to play something in WDM mode.  I don't get any sound..   I'll try again.

I'm about to delete Sonar and re install.  I don't know what else to do..  Nothing is working.     I just don't get it..  One minute it works and then it just stops working.


They are connected to the headphone jack..  That's what's been working..  I have no RCA plugs that will let me connect these speakers.

When I run the pro filer under input I get M Audio Fast Track

Under Output  I get 
M Audio Fast Track
 ATI HD audio rear output  

Those are the only options listed.


As far as the routing of the headphone jack.. It was working..  and I can still get audio from YouTube and even Audacity.  It's just Sonar..  

Nope..   I already did that..  

Now I'm getting blue screens when I reboot my computer.. 

I am uninstalling this crap software..  I've had nothing but problems with it from day 1.

The M Audio Fastrack has phono (RCA plugs) on the rear of it for output - Channel 1 (left and Channel 2 (right).

Have you updated (at the M Audio Fastrack website) firmware if needed and/or drivers?
In Sonar you check which input you want, and check which output you want. Both should be the M Audio Fast Track. (and not any checked for the  ATI thingy)

In Sonar for each track, you can probably have "Master" out, or "M Audio Fast Track". I use Master out (which then goes to final output - the M Audio Fast Track - that you have checked to use for "recording timing" (input) and "playback timing" (output) on one of the audio tabs (if like Sonar 7).

And by the way it may be the ATI HD audio rear output (which is your graphics card and HD means high definition). You may have to download earlier drivers perhaps for that and ATI does not work as good as a Geforce video card because  of the ATI drivers.

http://www.guru3d.com/

is a good place for many, many, drivers for video cards (new and older and you can read about which ones work the best - not all the time does the manufacturer create drivers that run the best - and come out with another driver version because of that.)

IronAxis,

the first thing to do is decide if you want to record or watch youtube on your computer.  It is best to keep those things on separate machines.  If you only have the one computer, it is best to segregate them to different sound cards, since youtube, computer sounds and other non-music making stuff has all kinds of sample rates/bit depths that muck up an interface designed for music making.  It ain't guaranteed, but more likely.  Been there, done that.  The solution - enable your relteck and remove the realtek drivers from SONAR.  Youtube etc. runs on the relteck, SONAr on the maudio.  that will solve all kinds of strange conflicks, or at least remove one variable.

From what I understand you have one set of computer speakers.  Go buy a $10 pair for your non-music making computer sounds and plug those into your relteck - voilá one of your potential problems solved.  Turn off the maudio (removing it from the system) and make sure your computer is using them for all the other stuff.  That is how my music computer is set up (relteck enabled, although I hardly ever turn them on).

Plug your m-audio into your "other" pair of speakers.  You said you understood how to do this, but that seemed the problem in your original post and seems to continue.  Once you do this you'll need to bring up the m-audio mixer.  This is probably not the little speaker icon in your tray at the bottom - it is most likely a different program.  The speaker icon is for your relteck.  Now you can begin to hook up and if necessary trouble shoot SONAR/M-Audio/your speakers.

I know you are frustrated, but you are trying to learn new software, new hardware, musical engineering and who knows what at one time.  It is a long slog.   Try to make it as simple as possible and then add compexity.  If Beagle or others give you advice, you need to take a big breath, try to do what they say and then tell us what happened as specifically as you can so people can walk you through what they would do in your situation.  That is the thing about computers, there a multiple things that can go wrong and you have to logically remove the things that aren't the problem to find what is.

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