OldGeezer
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Do dongles make you more "pro"?
I've noticed that some of those who are advocates of dongles seem to consider themselves more "pro" or talented than those who refuse to use them. Some will even go so far as to suggest that those who refuse to use dongled software are often downloaders of warez. Thoughts? Does an "in principle" stance on dongle-refusal suggest something about the musician/composer? Does advocating dongle use suggest something about the musician/composer? Do you think dongle usage to protect software justifies inconveniencing the customer or making him/her feel as though they are being treated as a potential thief? Be nice please. 
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toby
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 13:49:22
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ORIGINAL: OldGeezer
Do you think dongle usage to protect software justifies inconveniencing the customer or making him/her feel as though they are being treated as a potential thief?
All software developers have the right to utilize any means deemed necessary and appropriate to attempt to protect their intellectual property. The justification of inconveniencing the customer or making anyone feel as though they are being treated as a thief is a perception, not reality.
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OldGeezer
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 13:53:45
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So when a customer who buy a certain brand of software is unable to use said software for a period of time due to an inability to register the code to the dongle (examples of which have been cited in another thread), they are only percieving an inconvenience?
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toby
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 13:56:41
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ORIGINAL: OldGeezer
So when a customer who buy a certain brand of software is unable to use said software for a period of time due to an inability to register the code to the dongle (examples of which have been cited in another thread), they are only percieving an inconvenience?
No, that circumstance is truly an inconvenience. An inconvenience sometimes shared by other methods of licensing.
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OldGeezer
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 13:59:50
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True...very true. This is why I've stuck with Cakewalk and their simple serial number method. Granted, I was disappointed when it took several days for my serial number/reg-code to show up on my accounts page, but at least that's a single inconvenience. I now have the codes and can change my hardware or format my HD without having to go through any further hassles. I find Cakewalk's approach to be the least offensive/insulting method of registration of all the schemes I've been subjected to.
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Nate
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 14:01:26
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ORIGINAL: OldGeezer
So when a customer who buy a certain brand of software is unable to use said software for a period of time due to an inability to register the code to the dongle (examples of which have been cited in another thread), they are only percieving an inconvenience?
No. They are choosing the wrong software for their particular requirements.
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toby
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 14:01:58
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ORIGINAL: OldGeezer
True...very true. This is why I've stuck with Cakewalk and their simple serial number method. Granted, I was disappointed when it took several days for my serial number/reg-code to show up on my accounts page, but at least that's a single inconvenience. I now have the codes and can change my hardware or format my HD without having to go through any further hassles. I find Cakewalk's approach to be the least offensive/insulting method of registration of all the schemes I've been subjected to.
Absolutely! Kudos to Cakewalk.
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bapu
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 14:02:20
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I don't really have an opinion on dongles.
I just wanted to post on the first three topics of this new sub-forum.
OK, OK. I do have an opinion. I stay away from dongles. Personal choice.
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OldGeezer
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 14:03:19
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ORIGINAL: Nate
ORIGINAL: OldGeezer
So when a customer who buy a certain brand of software is unable to use said software for a period of time due to an inability to register the code to the dongle (examples of which have been cited in another thread), they are only percieving an inconvenience?
No. They are choosing the wrong software for their particular requirements.
How so? If someone buys something, say, from EastWest, but has trouble registering it to the dongle for days or weeks, the software is wrong for their requirements? I don't understand.
post edited by OldGeezer - 2009/01/07 14:07:37
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toby
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 14:10:24
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ORIGINAL: bapu
OK, OK. I do have an opinion. I stay away from dongles. Personal choice.
At some point, you may be missing out on a great Sample Library only available with dongle protection. Well, legally, ethically and morally anyway. :-)
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OldGeezer
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 14:34:47
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ORIGINAL: toby
ORIGINAL: bapu
OK, OK. I do have an opinion. I stay away from dongles. Personal choice.
At some point, you may be missing out on a great Sample Library only available with dongle protection.
Well, legally, ethically and morally anyway. :-)
Ah, but the flipside of that coin, of course, is that they might be missing out on a great customer by using dongle protection. I'd be curious to know what percentage of DAW software users refuse to use dongled software vs those who don't. And if those who accept dongles as a fact of life are predominantly "pros", I'd also be curious to know what the ratio of Sonar/Cubase/etc... users are "pros" vs "hobbyists". Perhaps a poll would be in order, coz I suspect that most of the users in here use Sonar to make music for fun rather than for a living...probably by a huge margin.
post edited by OldGeezer - 2009/01/07 14:39:41
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Nate
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 14:36:33
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ORIGINAL: OldGeezer
How so? If someone buys something, say, from EastWest, but has trouble registering it to the dongle for days or weeks, the software is wrong for their requirements? I don't understand.
Well that is a service issue, and different that what I thought you were saying. I was addressing that if the buyer doesn't like dealing with Dongles or things like Syncrosoft then they should avoid purchasing software that has that requirement. IOW's do the research on your products before you buy them. If you google a product, and read that some people have had registration issues related to a dongle, then you have to consider what those ramifications to your time and studio mean.
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OldGeezer
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 14:41:04
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ORIGINAL: Nate
ORIGINAL: OldGeezer
How so? If someone buys something, say, from EastWest, but has trouble registering it to the dongle for days or weeks, the software is wrong for their requirements? I don't understand.
Well that is a service issue, and different that what I thought you were saying. I was addressing that if the buyer doesn't like dealing with Dongles or things like Syncrosoft then they should avoid purchasing software that has that requirement.
IOW's do the research on your products before you buy them. If you google a product, and read that some people have had registration issues related to a dongle, then you have to consider what those ramifications to your time and studio mean.
Ah, I see what you're saying, and you're right. That's why I chose Sonar over Cubase. When I bought my first DAW host, the fellow at the music store was pushing Cubase on me, and when I found out I needed a dongle, I told him to forget it, and he then showed me Sonar....Ka-Ching!...Sold!
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toby
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 14:49:27
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ORIGINAL: OldGeezer
ORIGINAL: toby
ORIGINAL: bapu
OK, OK. I do have an opinion. I stay away from dongles. Personal choice.
At some point, you may be missing out on a great Sample Library only available with dongle protection.
Well, legally, ethically and morally anyway. :-)
Ah, but the flipside of that coin, of course, is that they might be missing out on a great customer by using dongle protection.
True, but it appears the professional product market is leaning more and more toward dongle protection. So, that "great customer" may not have much of a choice in the near future.
I'd be curious to know what percentage of DAW software users refuse to use dongled software vs those who don't. And if those who accept dongles as a fact of life are predominantly "pros", I'd also be curious to know what the ratio of Sonar/Cubase/etc... users are "pros" vs "hobbyists". Perhaps a poll would be in order, coz I suspect that most of the users in here use Sonar to make music for fun rather than for a living...probably by a huge margin.
Yes, I think the majority of SONAR users are probably hobbyists. That is speculation of course.
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Nate
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 15:07:19
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ORIGINAL: toby
True, but it appears the professional product market is leaning more and more toward dongle protection. So, that "great customer" may not have much of a choice in the near future.
That is true to an extent. I don't see many complaints about the UA product line though. If you look at the product it really is a giant dongle with perfect protection. People still love it though. Yes, I think the majority of SONAR users are probably hobbyists. That is speculation of course. I think the thinking should expand out to say that the majority of recording musicians are hobbyist. Music isn't a field with a large successful employment pool.  OT: I think Musicians have always presented a unique economic picture - from the Boomer types who spend enormous amounts on the gear of their youth (that the real professionals were playing) all the way to the Teenager buying tons of stuff off Craigslist or Ebay. These people spend almost like pro's, almost demand pro like results, yet are not selling a single thing. We used to call them 'Audiophiles' when I was a kid!
post edited by Nate - 2009/01/07 15:12:22
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yorolpal
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 15:16:48
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Well, I used to say consistently that I was opposed to dongles. Then I got GTR. Then Korg Legacy Digital Edition. Then MOTU Ethno. Then Gear Box Gold. Then Amp Farm. And then a crapload of UAD, which is really very much a dongle. So I guess I'm a liar, liar pants on fire. In fact what I'm typing right now is probably not even true. Or is it? Oh yea, I almost forgot. Am I a pro? Is the pope a bear in the woods?
post edited by yorolpal - 2009/01/07 15:21:09
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OldGeezer
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 15:20:58
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ORIGINAL: yorolpal
Well, I used to say consistently that I was opposed to dongles. Then I got GTR. Then Korg Legacy Digital Edition. Then MOTU Ethno. Then Gear Box Gold. Then Amp Farm. And then a crapload of UAD, which is really very much a dongle. So I guess I'm a liar, liar pants on fire. In fact what I'm typing right now is probably not even true. Or is it?
You're an enigma! I guess I'm one of those idiots who sticks to his principles....even when it's inconvenient to do so. If the day comes when it's impossible to buy music software without dongles, I guess I'll either stick with what I've got or find another hobby (actually, I'm trying my hand at sculpting...fortunately, nobody's figured out a way to dongle clay...yet).
post edited by OldGeezer - 2009/01/07 15:24:50
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thegeek
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 15:25:05
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to the OP question: No they dont! Do i use any software that is dongle protected? No,I dont currently Will I ever? I try to avoid them but If Im ever forced to,Id give it a second thought Why do I avoid them? I hate the idea of having a very expensive software totally related on an easy to break,easy to lose,easy to go wrong,easy to be stolen,easy to mess up the rest of my PC little piece of equipment! Do I need someone to explain me that my above idea is faulty and that Im missing the truth? No,I dont thank you,keep your views to yourself and Ill keep my views to myself.Im not in the mood of arguing once more about the same ol things! Then why the hell did I post here if Im not open to listen to what other people might say? Well i just wanted to express my views on the matter,nothing more-nothing less! Thank you!
post edited by thegeek - 2009/01/07 15:29:31
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OldGeezer
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 15:27:43
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ORIGINAL: thegeek
....keep your views to yourself and Ill keep my views to myself.Im not in the mood of arguing once more about the same ol things!
Har! Well, I'm still an advocate of freedom of speech, so forgive me if I don't obey your command. Feel free to express yourself though...no double-standards here!
post edited by OldGeezer - 2009/01/07 15:31:10
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thegeek
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 15:31:10
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oh sorry perhaps I did not express myself correctly!Im not saying you (or anyone) are not free to speak of course!Im saying ill just wont bother answering to anyone who tries to argue with my logic and adresses his views directly to me! - or to put it better,dont bother try to change my views because i wont! Soz if im not making myself clear,remember english is not my native language! EDIT:typos + added a sentence ,hope it clarifes a bit what i meant!
post edited by thegeek - 2009/01/07 15:37:40
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Jonbouy
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 15:41:21
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I guess I'm one of those idiots who sticks to his principles....even when it's inconvenient to do so. Hey if you substitute the word principles for dongles here I guess you get to see the other side of the argument...  I don't like dongles, drm, or any other kind of justified 'malware' intruding into 'Fort Bouy' without full knowledge of exactly what it does and why? I still prefer to deal in cash as my favoured form of currency too. Just my perverse preference I guess.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2009/01/07 15:50:36
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Fog
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 15:52:20
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you make music.. end of... I use things with a dongle (cubase) and things with cd protection etc (props / NI products) and things without , sonar
I do find it funny how some producers advocate pro tools only.. yet their work far from utilises it,. much like using a sledgehammer on a walnut.. it's a bit OTT
years ago (this is back in the very early 90's) a friend said because there were so many none legit versions of cubase floating around on the ST it almost bankrupt Steinberg (maybe this was one of his "stories") . So the whole argument is donkey years old. With C-lab etc.. because they did such a good job at protection it forced people to buy a proper one.
Some people out of principle won't use stuff that's dongled... fair enough, I mean I worry about hearing my dongle go crunch if I stand or break it.
if you ask these same people.. I bet there is 1+ product they would buy if it didn't have such a device... although now to save costs it looks more and more like it's going software based.
so nope it don't make you pro, what you do with what you have and making the best of it, is the best sign of your abilities.
It's for others to judge I guess, people who don't know you and are totally objective to how good / bad your work is.
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yorolpal
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 16:02:33
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ORIGINAL: OldGeezer
ORIGINAL: yorolpal
Well, I used to say consistently that I was opposed to dongles. Then I got GTR. Then Korg Legacy Digital Edition. Then MOTU Ethno. Then Gear Box Gold. Then Amp Farm. And then a crapload of UAD, which is really very much a dongle. So I guess I'm a liar, liar pants on fire. In fact what I'm typing right now is probably not even true. Or is it?
You're an enigma!
Geeze, geeze (I've always wanted to say that!) your spelling's as bad as CJ's. Isn't that supposed to be just an "e" instead of "ig"??
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OldGeezer
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 16:08:55
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At my age, I could probably use one of those now and then, but I'm too homophobic.
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Jonbouy
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 16:12:57
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A funny thing on the issue is I wouldn't have any qualms about installing UAD gear which as well as being coming reliant on the firmware to run the plugs it gives you some extra DSP clout at the same time.
So I guess the bad principle for me is something around making the software dependent on some device that provides no functionality other than assuring the software vendor that I'm a good guy....when I know I'm a good guy anyway.
I think the worst example of that is when a company takes something like a 'standard' midi keyboard changes the interface to a proprietary one and then calls it 'XY or Z'-Powered. As a marketing strategy to me it makes as much sense to me as saying 'Hey Schmucko give US yer hard earned cash and we'll make sure you'll come back to us time and again', simply I ain't gonna go fer it.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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OldGeezer
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 16:19:05
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ORIGINAL: Jonbouy
A funny thing on the issue is I wouldn't have any qualms about installing UAD gear which as well as being coming reliant on the firmware to run the plugs it gives you some extra DSP clout at the same time.
So I guess the bad principle for me is something around making the software dependent on some device that provides no functionality other than assuring the software vendor that I'm a good guy....when I know I'm a good guy anyway.
I think the worst example of that is when a company takes something like a 'standard' midi keyboard changes the interface to a proprietary one and then calls it 'XY or Z'-Powered. As a marketing strategy to me it makes as much sense to me as saying 'Hey Schmucko give US yer hard earned cash and we'll make sure you'll come back to us time and again', simply I ain't gonna go fer it.
Yeah, I'm not sure I'd classify UAD gear (if I understand it correctly) as being donglish. If the card actually does all the processing, then it seems perfectly reasonable. Are the FX built into the card or are the FX software plugs that utilize the card? Either way, I think it's reasonable, even if they're limiting their customer base by making the plugs hardware-dependant. I can't bring myself to bash the UAD concept....like you said, it provides a major functionality, and I think the dongle-aspect is merely a consequence of the hardware-dsp concept, and not so much a security measure. It'd be like bashing games that use direct3D and require 3d graphics cards without offering the ability to let the CPU do the work. At some point, you've got to draw the line.
post edited by OldGeezer - 2009/01/07 16:23:55
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space_cowboy
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 16:35:49
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Is there a product to make my dongle last for up to 24 hours?
Some people call me Maurice SPLAT Pro lifetime, ADK 6 core 3.6Ghz with 32 GB RAM, SSD 1TB system drive, 3 3TB regular drives for samples, recordings and misc. Behringer X Touch, UAD Apollo Quad. 2 UAD2 Quads PCI (i think - inside the box whatever that is), Console 1. More guitars (40??) and synths (hard and soft) than talent. Zendrum!!!
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Richard Brian
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 16:51:55
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Good Christ man, see a doctor if a session lasts more than four hours! Oh ship, hope I'm not banished for the religion thing.
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OldGeezer
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 16:55:12
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I've actually faked it a few times when it's gone beyond an hour. Sigh!...I remember when I was young and it was over in 3 minutes. Ah, the good 'ol days.
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Nate
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RE: Do dongles make you more "pro"?
2009/01/07 17:31:26
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ORIGINAL: OldGeezer
I guess I'm one of those idiots who sticks to his principles....even when it's inconvenient to do so. Deciding to use products with Dongles has nothing to do with principles. It all has to do with work flow, what kind of decisions you make, and what kinds of risk you are okay with. A few years back with Pace was rampant, I wouldn't use products utilizing that protection. It's wasn't from principles, it was that Pace would act like a virus on my machine. There by forcing me to kick Pace products out of the studio. With Dongles, and even though they are version of Pace in some manner, there is no conflict with software. Aside from a Waves/Nuendo Dongle fight a few years back, everything in my studio has been hunky dory.
post edited by Nate - 2009/01/08 10:15:23
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