LJB
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Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
Hi guys, here's a slightly geeky gripe I suppose, but I work with a lot of clients and many other studios and DAWs, and I find the Sonar X3e export and bounce options limited.
For instance, why should one have to export Mono and Stereo tracks separately? Would anyone else agree that a simple "Export Tracks As Is.." option would be handy in the Export Audio menu?
I'd also like to see a system whereby one has the option of exporting the entire mix as separate tracks by playing the song in realtime, with the DAW recording each track's OUTPUT to a new wav file in a target folder. Why you ask? Because often a bounced or offline track sounds quite different to one playing in realtime, especially if you're dealing with plugins that are not very forgiving in the headroom dept. The realtime playback almost always sounds better.
ProFools has probably the best exporting options - can't be hard to just emulate it, surely?
I am going to make a feature request, but some support on this would be a good indication as to whether others want it too. Also, any other export options anyone can suggest?
Best,
Ludwig
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...wicked
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/09 12:53:14
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I would love an option where discreet tracks would bounce down or out as separate tracks...making the rendering portion of pre-mixing a single process. Even if it had to do it sequentially and take a while it would be fine. But having to select each track, AND it's corresponding soft synth audio track...well it gets a little old.
Which reminds me, if nothing else, for the love of Pete please make selecting a MIDI portion of a soft synth track smart enough to include it's audio portion!! We don't all use instrument tracks, and we don't all use freeze. This item alone would make me very happy.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/09 13:36:54
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For instance, why should one have to export Mono and Stereo tracks separately? Would anyone else agree that a simple "Export Tracks As Is.." option would be handy in the Export Audio menu?
Yes that'd be handy
I'd also like to see a system whereby one has the option of exporting the entire mix as separate tracks by playing the song in realtime, with the DAW recording each track's OUTPUT to a new wav file in a target folder. Why you ask? Because often a bounced or offline track sounds quite different to one playing in realtime, especially if you're dealing with plugins that are not very forgiving in the headroom dept. The realtime playback almost always sounds better.
If I'm understanding you correctly you already can. Select "Tracks" from the source category. Select required tracks from the source/buss track list. Set required options Set target directory in the file browser section Uncheck "Fast Bounce" Select "Audible Bounce" Select "Export" HTH
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/09 15:30:50
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Comparing PT and others, IIRC, fast bounce was a novelty in some recent update of PT, whereas others had had it for over ten years already. So, all softwares take steps forward, but the steps are very different.
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LJB
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/09 15:44:24
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+1 for Wicked's post.
Funnily enough, the more I mix, the less I use Fastbouce. It sounds different and is full of unknowns and inconsistencies, including sometimes not including a track or synth in the mix. Probably a reason why others have left it off their menu. Most big shot engineers still swear by a live mixdown - and I can hear the difference too, even when just looping the output through my external interface back onto a stereo track. It's like the plugins sound better in realtime.. maybe the DAW is more forgiving when it has "momentum".
As for Audible Bounce, where does that file actually get rendered from? And is the DAW playing the track and recording it, or just giving the user an audio monitor feature? Can anyone at Cakewalk give some insight into this? I'd appreciate it for sure!
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Kev999
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/09 20:31:54
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FastBikerBoy
I'd also like to see a system whereby one has the option of exporting the entire mix as separate tracks by playing the song in realtime, with the DAW recording each track's OUTPUT to a new wav file in a target folder...
If I'm understanding you correctly you already can. Select "Tracks" from the source category. Select required tracks from the source/buss track list... I didn't realise until now that selecting the "Tracks" option when exporting resulted in separate output files for each track. I wish I'd known about it earlier. I had no idea. And similarly with buses, which is even more useful.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/09 22:55:49
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We have had export tracks and buses independently forever - Several versions ago.
Realtime bounce is unnecessary in most cases since it produces identical results to fast bounce. You can test it yourself by phase inverting and playing it back with the original session.
All audible bounce does is tee off the final mix to the audio device. It has no effect on actual bounce.
The mono and stereo options are provided to allow exporting to stereo or mono wave files. Its not an uncommon requirement.
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LJB
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/10 08:04:43
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Noel, is it not possible to make have Sonar intelligently export Mono as Mono and Stereo as Stereo? It would save an awful amount of time.
But I can let you hear examples of where bouncing a clip sounds different to playing it out live. It might a plugin issue, but it happens..
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/10 10:02:21
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You mean when source category is tracks or buses? It is possible but would need a new auto mode since some people may still want to force one type or the other. Send in a feature request.
Regarding sounding different it would definitely be a plugin issue. You should complain to your plugin vendor...
That's the only reason we have realtime bounce :)
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bitflipper
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/10 11:02:50
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Regarding sounding different it would definitely be a plugin issue. You should complain to your plugin vendor... Fast bounces can fail through no fault of the plugin vendor. If you're low on RAM, sample-based virtual instruments can become garbled. I've seen this most often with Omnisphere, but occasionally with Kontakt as well. The bounce/export will complete with no indication of a problem, so you won't know the audio's been scrambled until you subsequently listen to it. That's why I routinely use the slow bounce, since it almost never has a problem (the one exception: automation of Sampletank 2.5 once failed with a slow bounce but worked OK with the fast bounce).
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/10 22:57:42
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I understand that there are some compat issues. However a well behaved sample playback instrument should tolerate a fast bounce. The VST specification allows notifying plugins when a bounce is underway so its completely within the control of a VST to throttle the speed of rendering to account for its bandwidth limits without any loss of quality.
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LJB
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/11 04:43:36
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Noel, of course there are some of us who also use external hardware for mixing - another reason to use realtime mixdowns. You might want to add that as "another reason for realtime bounce, other than dodgy plugins" :O) I'll put in a feature request for "Smart Bounce" - you can quote me in the menu :O)
post edited by LJB - 2014/07/11 05:03:47
Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
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vmw
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/13 00:32:45
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I have a feature I would like, in the graphics biz it is known as preflight. Taking Adobe Indesign as an example you can have the preflight on as you work or when you are finished. I think a preflight dialog to give the user the choice of using or not. If preflight is selected then the user selects from a dropdown list the end destination. The usual default, user, categories plus mp3, wav, aif, DVD, Vinyl (checks the position of the tracks for best bass placement) etc. A set of radial buttons exists that allow selection range of quality, slowest but best, slower but good for lossy formats, fast. Then the preflight checks the tracks, plugin latency, automation envelopes that are obsolete etc. You no doubt get the idea. The existing dialog on bouncing/exporting remains. For me I would select end destination DVD and take as long as you like I want quality. All of the setting are saved with the project but into a different file (so you can drag it to a setup in a new song.
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Splat 
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/13 00:39:08
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vmw
I have a feature I would like, in the graphics biz it is known as preflight. Taking Adobe Indesign as an example you can have the preflight on as you work or when you are finished. I think a preflight dialog to give the user the choice of using or not. If preflight is selected then the user selects from a dropdown list the end destination. The usual default, user, categories plus mp3, wav, aif, DVD, Vinyl (checks the position of the tracks for best bass placement) etc. A set of radial buttons exists that allow selection range of quality, slowest but best, slower but good for lossy formats, fast. Then the preflight checks the tracks, plugin latency, automation envelopes that are obsolete etc. You no doubt get the idea. The existing dialog on bouncing/exporting remains. For me I would select end destination DVD and take as long as you like I want quality. All of the setting are saved with the project but into a different file (so you can drag it to a setup in a new song.
Now that's a really good idea.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/13 08:37:12
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That's essentially what our bounce/export presets are :) They save a collection of settings as a friendly name.
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GIM Productions
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/13 10:10:40
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
That's essentially what our bounce/export presets are :) They save a collection of settings as a friendly name.
I have not problems with export options in Sonar X3 and i have created many templates for my needs (Master exp,MP3 demos,Busses exp,raw demos). But i never use fast bounce....... Best
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gswitz
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/13 10:30:25
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I pretty much ALWAYS use fast bounce unless I'm using External FX. I primarily use FX sold by Cakewalk. I do use a couple of Melodyne FX but I've never had an issue I detected due to using Fast Bounce.
I may try doing an old mix fast bounced then slow bounced and use 0 summing to see what the delta is. I'll probably exclude plugins that do random stuff like the Console Emulators.
Noel, do you use Real Time bounce when doing your personal stuff? Sounds like yes, but I'm curious to know.
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brconflict
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/13 11:02:37
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I'd Personally like to see 1) Select Track or Tracks, 2) Right-Click => Export Track, then get a pop-up with a checkbox, "Bounced". Easy.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/13 15:04:07
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gswitz
Noel, do you use Real Time bounce when doing your personal stuff? Sounds like yes, but I'm curious to know.
Never, I trust fast bounce more than I trust real time bounce :) Real time bounce can drop out and stop just like playback. Fast bounce on the other hand can never drop out. It can also bounce a project that exceeds the CPU bandwidth because it scales the speed based on the available CPU. I don't do a whole lot of synth based stuff however so in my case there never is a difference between playback and fast bounce.
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John T
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/13 15:09:32
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I stopped using Real Time Bounce ages ago myself. BFD used to be cranky in realtime until a couple of their updates ago. Since that got fixed, I've never had a problem.
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Kev999
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Re: Do you also want better export and bounce options in Sonar?
2014/07/13 15:42:13
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I find that Fast Bounce only ever causes problems when MIDI is involved and works perfectly ok with audio-only projects.
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