Pragi
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Re: Do you use much hardware?
2017/07/26 17:25:41
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chuckebaby
Pragi
Can hear some pro ´s mentioning that the sound of a guit comes
out of the fingers.
regards
You are right. the fingers have a lot to do with it, picking technique as well (Closer to the bridge/Closer to the neck). The toughest change for me was adjusting my ears to real amps again. After years of using Amp Sims, I found my ears had accepted a thinner sound with not as much meat. So when I went back to using real Amps again that bottom end meat seemed overwhelming to me. Personally I was having trouble with it.
Amps Sims are amazing and they have really come a long way since the old days (POD 2.0 :-).
And they are very convenient as far as neighbor love goes. But a real amp still sounds better than anything.
Interesting that you don´t use amp-sims that much anymore. Similar here since I build a silent cab for my amp-boxes. I use a DI box to split the guitar signal - one channel goes to the silent cab (where I mic the box ) and the other direct into the interface. The sound I get that way is fantastic imo. A by product of using a DI box with ground lift is that the sidetones of the amp and the fx nearly disappeared . The dry signal is rarely used for making the sound of the miced signal thicker with amp sims. Hope it´s not to much OT .  regards
post edited by Pragi - 2017/07/26 22:07:04
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smallstonefan
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Re: Do you use much hardware?
2017/07/26 20:09:00
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Does my Fractal Axe FX II count as hardware? 
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Pragi
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Re: Do you use much hardware?
2017/07/27 09:32:14
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smallstonefan
Does my Fractal Axe FX II count as hardware?
Yes , I think so.
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smallstonefan
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Re: Do you use much hardware?
2017/07/27 11:09:59
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Pragi
smallstonefan
Does my Fractal Axe FX II count as hardware?
Yes , I think so.
Cool!
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chuckebaby
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Re: Do you use much hardware?
2017/07/27 11:20:42
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Pragi
chuckebaby
Pragi
Can hear some pro ´s mentioning that the sound of a guit comes
out of the fingers.
regards
You are right. the fingers have a lot to do with it, picking technique as well (Closer to the bridge/Closer to the neck). The toughest change for me was adjusting my ears to real amps again. After years of using Amp Sims, I found my ears had accepted a thinner sound with not as much meat. So when I went back to using real Amps again that bottom end meat seemed overwhelming to me. Personally I was having trouble with it.
Amps Sims are amazing and they have really come a long way since the old days (POD 2.0 :-).
And they are very convenient as far as neighbor love goes. But a real amp still sounds better than anything.
Interesting that you don´t use amp-sims that much anymore.
Similar here since I build a silent cab for my amp-boxes.
I use a DI box to split the guitar signal -
one channel goes to the silent cab (where I mic the box )
and the other direct into the interface.
The sound I get that way is fantastic imo.
A by product of using a DI box with ground lift is that the
sidetones of the amp and the fx nearly disappeared .
The dry signal is rarely used for making the sound of the miced
signal thicker with amp sims.
Hope it´s not to much OT .
regards
That's great stuff Pragi. I like your ideas. Im in the process myself of building a silent cab (an ISO box). Right now I have my cabs in a separate room (my drum room) so when I track in the control room you can hardly hear it. However there is bleed from the cranked cabs when trying to Mic the drum kit. So this my next project (building an iso cab). I have so many speakers. I am a tone freak when it comes to guitar tones. I have been chasing tone for many years and have collected a lot of vintage speakers (1960's greenbacks, older Vintage 30's). I thought about building a row for different speakers and a switch to change Microphones and Cabs but it is complicated. I just hate having to switch speakers because typically I will change amps and Cabs in the same project (guitars too) I love your idea about the splitter. im going to have to use that myself. its always nice to have a back up of the original dry track as well. And there is a different sound blending real Cabs with Sims that im thinking of exploring.
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Pragi
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Re: Do you use much hardware?
2017/07/28 06:28:06
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@ Chuck, thanks for your response , that way I can be sure that it is possible to understand what I wrote. So far I can encourage everybody who has the idea to build an iso cab. Makes for me a significant quality jump from amp simuilations. I also have a recording room - a small space next to our bands rehearsal room - but the sound quality recording in that room is not as good as it can be in the iso cab and it´s now also not needed to prepare this small room for every recording session ( Yes,had to ). I realized that mics with a big proximity effect ( Sennheiser e 906 or Shure SM 57) sound powerful in an iso cab. Don´t have as many nice speaker as you have, Marshall 1936, Fender Hot Rod 12 " and Fame GN 112(loaded with an Eminence Legend( but manage the 3 different speaker via patch bay . regards
post edited by Pragi - 2017/07/28 07:04:21
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rebel007
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Re: Do you use much hardware?
2017/07/28 07:45:08
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My Feurich upright piano has a sound that just cannot be replicated by software. I mean anyone can tell it's a real piano that's been recorded because it's so difficult to reproduce all those squeaks and rattles. Seriously though, I've yet to find a piece of software that can give me that timbre of the timber. That's not to say I'm not happy with software keyboards, I use them more than the piano, it's just different that's all. The only other piece of hardware I use on a regular basis is an old, cheap Alesis reverb/echo unit that has a sound that is just right sometimes.
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lfm
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Re: Do you use much hardware?
2017/07/28 08:22:35
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Pragi
@ Chuck,
thanks for your response , that way I can be sure
that it is possible to understand what I wrote.
So far I can encourage everybody who has the idea to build
an iso cab. Makes for me a significant quality jump from
amp simuilations. I also have a recording room - a small space
next to our bands rehearsal room - but the sound quality recording in that
room is not as good as it can be in the iso cab and
it´s now also not needed to prepare this small room for every recording session ( Yes,had to ).
I realized that mics with a big proximity effect ( Sennheiser e 906 or
Shure SM 57) sound powerful in an iso cab.
Don´t have as many nice speaker as you have,
Marshall 1936, Fender Hot Rod 12 " and Fame GN 112(loaded with an Eminence Legend(
but manage the 3 different speaker via patch bay .
regards
I looked at Randall ISO CAB, the 1x12" one. Price range $300-350. Seems really cool, but not entierly silent as I found on youtube. There are other commercial ones, but start at about double price from Randall which also include a 12" speaker. Some switch this speaker to better quality one, if not liking Celestion vintage element. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uryi21rU3G0 Instead I bought a couple of http://www.TedWeber.com 50W load units which are reactive and are closer to a speaker compared to resistive loads. My amps are about 15-20W and they recommend double amp specs as load. Then I use a Radial JDX DI-box over that speaker load. It emulates 2x12" in a decent way. Just use an extra speaker cable and plug into this box. Output from this box into a preamp or mixer. To get the feeling standing in front of a stack, I use a impulse response of a studio or other small enough room. I use in Waves IR1, but other probably allow similar features. I modify amplitude envelope to much shorter than original IR so volume drops more quickly after a short while, so you just get a tiny room feel like a miked up situation. You don't need a full room, just a tiny bit. Some amps in my collection have some resistive loads and allow some speaker emulation, some if using usb outs from amp. Laney Ironheart Studio is a really nice amp, with so many features. It also allowed to run without speaker load if plugged in into the 1W input(it has a 1W resistor load using that). I use rack unit head - and I recommend having a look at it. Features rich and well thought out amp over all. But I run through the load described above to be sure I get full power amp saturation in there, not reduced effect one. The Koch Studiotone also have 20W resistive load if not wanting to run speakers. But also do weberload above on that. To get cleaner fender like power amp I got a Superchamp X2 and modified to get a effect loop return into that.(description I posted on fender forum). This way I can use preamps in Laney or Koch to use fender power amp. So a simple rack patch bay like Behringer PX3000 I do preamp out and return through patch bay on amps I can combine to liking. I like power amp in Laney and Fender better than Koch own. So this lab setup is really flexible and dead silent to work in any bedroom if so.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Do you use much hardware?
2017/07/29 11:09:46
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Ya these are some very good reads. Love talking and learning about stuff like this. I am a total Tone chaser and would probably steal candy from a baby if it meant getting that tone (okay not that bad but you know what I mean)  . Anyway, I built an ISO cab yesterday (2ftX3ft) using ply wood and sound dampening egg foam. At first I thought about building one with a built in speaker, but I have so many I wanted to be able to put my 1x12 and 2x12's right inside of the ISO cab (so I wouldn't need to switch speakers all the time). Pragi, it sounds like you have some awesome cabs. I love anything Fane and the 1936 is one of my all time favorites. I have a 2x12 Soldano cab that sounds really close to the 1936 and its my best sounding cab (front loaded, solid 3/4 plywood) it belonged to Rod Price of Foghat. I got it in 2006. Back to the ISO cab, It sounds great. only problem is... it is not as quiet as I thought it was going to be . However, when I put it in my drum room, I cant hear anything in my control room. Before I could feel the rumble in my control room when I put cabs in the drum room. a lot better now. But at first I put it in my control room. thinking shorter cables, more flexibility to dial in sounds while im playing. but it just wasn't happening, it was too loud and that was around 70 db in the box.
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Pragi
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Re: Do you use much hardware?
2017/07/29 11:48:36
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Chuck, hope you are getting your Iso cab as silent as you need it. Have you tried to use ? 1.Inside 10 cm thick acoustic foam and 2. to fill the joints with silicon and the lid with sealing tape ? 3. 3 close fitting frames for the lid Off course, my silent box is not totally silent but I can play very loud during the day time in our house. During playing very loud via silent box it is possible to speak quiet in the same room. Hope this is anyway helpful for you. regards
post edited by Pragi - 2017/07/29 13:03:32
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tlw
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Re: Do you use much hardware?
2017/07/29 11:50:38
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Iso cabs generally leak some sound, unless they're seriously huge and heavy. I built one a few years ago to hold a Celestion 10" Greenback, which is a pretty insensitive speaker as guitar speakers go. The inner and outer boxes were 1/2" MDF with 3" of heavy rockwool and 1" of the acoustic foam used to isolate drum kits from stages between them and under the base and it was good for around 30dB of noise reduction. This was not a small or lightweight box.
Which meant leakage of around 60-70 db with it on a concrete floor, and noticable added rumble if it was put on floorboards. It's surprising how much noise even a 15 watt amp can push out. Still, getting down to the volume of a moderately loud conversation was an improvement on what went before.
These days I often use a Palmer speaker sim DI box and a Palmer reactive load to replace the actual physical speaker and provide the required load to the amps. Works pretty well, I can't easily tell the Palmer (via nearfields) and a guitar speaker apart after a minimal bit of eqing, at least not until pushing the kind of volume that makes a speaker really start to break up. It might not be the exact response of a speaker, but it's very close and does away with mic placement, room issues and mic frequency response issues completely. I've never quite understood why so many emulators are big on emulating microphones - using a mic is a necessary compromise with a real speaker, but it is always a compromise and to my mind one that would be better done away with if possible.
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gswitz
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Re: Do you use much hardware?
2017/07/29 13:14:14
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Tlw, don't they reverse recordings made with Mics to try to back into the emulations?
I think that is why they emulate Mics.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Do you use much hardware?
2017/07/29 14:06:27
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Pragi
Chuck,
hope you are getting your Iso cab as silent as you need it.
Have you tried to use ?
1.Inside 10 cm thick acoustic foam and
2. to fill the joints with silicon and the lid with sealing tape ?
3. 3 close fitting frames for the lid
Off course, my silent box is not totally silent but I can
play very loud during the day time in our house.
During playing very loud via silent box it is possible to speak quiet
in the same room.
Hope this is anyway helpful for you.
regards
Those are some great ideas Pragi. I thank you for that. I think caulking the joints with silicone is my next step. didn't use rock wool but I probably should have. If this next phase fails, Im just going to make a 3 inch form in the corner of my basement and make it out of concrete . Seriously, I swear I've thought about it.. LOL. It wouldn't be very mobile but im absolutely positive I wouldn't hear it. 
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Pragi
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Re: Do you use much hardware?
2017/07/29 14:58:24
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Wouldn´t use rockwool cause of its effects on the lungs. 10 cm (3 inch?) thick acoustic foam appears to be in my box very isolating but a bit more expensive, Imo basotect is a good choice as rockwool replacement To reduce the vibrating and resonating of the isocab replacment feets for washing machines are a cheao option.. regards
post edited by Pragi - 2017/07/30 06:10:20
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Pragi
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Re: Do you use much hardware?
2017/07/29 14:58:29
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tlw
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Re: Do you use much hardware?
2017/07/29 23:47:59
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gswitz
Tlw, don't they reverse recordings made with Mics to try to back into the emulations?
I think that is why they emulate Mics.
No idea. I would imagine if speakers were recorded to get frequency and impulse response plots to use as the emulation model then a flat measurement mic in an anechoic chamber would be the way to go, then recurve the emulation plot to remove any microphone related effects, but I could be wrong. The whole business of emulating microphones leaves me scratching my head to be honest. If e.g. a vocal is recorded using, say, an SM57 then imposing on top of that recording the frequency response and distortion characteristics of e.g. a vintage Neumann strikes me as the same sort of thing as using a Line6 Pod into a guitar amp without switching the Pod's speaker emulation off.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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