Do you write your lyrics to the beats, loops, melody or finished song?

I usually come up with my lyrics in my head then work the so-called tune out...I usually just hum the thing to myself then try to sing it out...

LOL AT, I'm the total opposite. I can't write lyrics to save my own butt, but can put music to just about any words in seconds. We need to form a writing team! Hahahaha!

As for the question asked here, for me it's always different. I used to write riffs and then add words to them. These days, I like to come up with a melody and then choose a topic...and the music creates itself from the melody I come up with. From there, that melody usually writes the rest of the song for me. Or I may come up with a chorus hook that sets the tone...or a verse lyric with a melody. So most times this is what works best for me.

I find myself in a really stagnant situation when I'm forcing myself to write to music that is already there. I almost feel stifled for some odd reason. When the words come first, it dictates where the song goes for me. When the music comes first, I find myself having to make changes to the song once the lyrics and melody start to come out. There really is no set way for me, but I prefer melody and lyrics first over music then melody/lyrics. :)

-Danny

Most of the time I write much the same way Matt does.  I will jam to chord progressions that sound interesting to me.  Eventually, subliminally, either a chorus will emerge, sometimes it is a couple of verse lines that are interesting, some times just gibberish that sounds like it might form into something.  I have had complete songs come together in less than an hour and I have carried around particial songs for up to and over a year. 

It seems like my biggest hang up is that I will get a complete first verse that I like and a chorus that I like and then I can't get a second, or third verse to sound as meaningful as I would like.  That is when the process seem to drag on until the right words finally come forth.

I have on occasion, but not very often, written lyrics first and then set music to them.  When this happens, it seems inevitable that the words will have to change a little once I figure out a melody and chord progression to go with them.  It just seems like they never quite come together musically, with out the lyrics having to become singable to the way the song wants to form itself.  It does n't seem like you can force them to work, they tend to kind of write themselves and go where they are meant to go.

I write differently on acoustic guitar, than I do on electric.  I am not much of a piano player, but working slowly at it.  I write completely differently on piano it seems.  I still start with chord progressions, but they write differently for some reason.  I have only written a couple of songs from a bass guitar, but bass will sometimes actually change the direction of a song as well.

The best thing I have learned over the years is not to get to stuck on any one thing, but to let it go where it wants to, even if it means completely changing direction.

I have not collaborated much on writing for the last couple of years, but am kind of getting the bug for that again as well.

I write words first but try to maintain some kind of meter ... I guess that's something like poetry.  I am tone deaf so at that point I fumble around with different chord progressions.

Its a lot easier for me to have a melody and lyric in my head and work it out on guitar.  With music production, if I am doing the beat first, I get really screwed, and do the lyrics to the beat.

In POP music the most important thing is a hook though..  Like a lyrical hook!  HAHA I love this.  Its awesome.  I think its brilliant.  You will never change my mind by quoting me, to tell me how corny and pathetic this actually is:

"Every second is a highlight 
When we touch don't ever let me go  Dirty dancing in the moonlight  
Take me down like I'm a domino"

Its awesome!  Wish, wish, wish!  I was that good at lyrics

More recently, I have started with lyrics and added the music. Especially when I co-write. I like to have some sort of lyric story together first. 

Not all lyric ideas inspire a melody.

I have also written another way too. Doing both at the same time. Several of my tunes on my soundclick were written this way. Everything coming at the same time.  That is fun when it happens. These songs are very often solo efforts..... no co-writers when this occurs.


I have also written the music to a song with not a single lyric idea in my head..... just the music and melody.  I have sent this to my co-writer who is really the lyricist, and in a day or two she has sent back a lyric that fit...and with some tweezing, in a few days we ended up with a finished song.  This is also represented on my music page. 

What I'm saying is that it's YES to ALL THE ABOVE. To me it doesn't matter how I write it as long as I write it and it works well. 

Guitarhacker

What I'm saying is that it's YES to ALL THE ABOVE. To me it doesn't matter how I write it as long as I write it and it works well. 

+1 to "all of the above".
 
I've written lyrics first, written lyrics last, had a complete chorus (music/lyrics) pop to my head, created a killer first verse that had no second verse for years, written lyrics for someone else's music, written pages of lyrics in order to whittle it down to 5 verses.
 
For me, it's a song by song process.  The starting point makes a big difference for me, if I'm jamming on the acoustic, pounding on the piano, or sitting with a pencil and paper to flesh out a lyrical idea.  I have a notebook full of lyric/chord ideas, waiting for completion.  I really need to throw these into Sonar, before I forget what the melodies were.

I think for the most part lyrics is where the hard work is at. I can usually write verse 1 and a chorus without too much sweat. The key is to keep at the idea while it's fresh and take it as far as I can. If I run into a brick wall, I pull someone else in. I have so many unfinished songs that lately I make sure I stick with the idea until it's done. I've found it's rare that I go back and finish that song I started last year.  :)

I tend to write the lyrics and the music together, usually on guitar. (hook 1st)

i've been all over the place in the past with what i write my lyrics to, but lately it's been either a moment of inspiration while playing my guitar or singing a tune + lyrics into my state of the art recording setup (my smartphone ).

i think the most important thing is capturing inspiration in the way that works best for a person, but i think there are few basic ideas to consider, with the disclaimer that art is subjective, whatever sounds good, etc...

could just be me, but i feel that poetry doesn't always translate well to lyrics. by "well", i mean not awkward to sing (or listen to). i've written both and they have mostly stayed in their separate corners, and it's been a rare that a combination has turned out to be what i consider "good" (always predictably metered poetry heading into the lyrical category, and usually with some alterations).

i think that is because lyrics are usually written with a melody in mind, even subconsciously, and poetry is written against a meter, or for more abstract forms, against an emotional balance of words vs. the shorter, regular rhythm of "western" music. to counter this, though, you could say that lyrics are just a form of poetry set to rhythm rather than meter.

i also think a big part of lyric writing is intent: is it self-expression, is it carefully crafted words, or is it just the distinction between one great groove and another (and there's nothing wrong with that). listening to top 40's radio (which i rarely subject myself to ), i'd say that a lot of it is the third option, but even then, there's some really inspired lyrical hooks out there despite the "hit factory" vibe.

i think that intent helps narrow down approaches - i think it would be easier to write lyrics before or during a song that is basically self-expression, and harder to carefully craft words to a finished instrumental. and there's definitely a science to it, or at least a psychology, if you are looking to go the crafted route.

i totally agree that pushing yourself is the best way to expand your talents. trying things you wouldn't normally do, order of writing you aren't used to, typing vs. writing, etc. i think another important thing is realizing that writing lyrics is always practice for next time. being able to recognize when you've written something that is inspired, and being OK letting go stuff that isn't.

i think i do alright with lyrics when i let inspiration (or quite honestly, a stream of consciousness) bring them out. my issue is always "the hook", whether it be lyrical or melodic. i've written some decent lines, but "the hook" continues to evade me. not that i'm always interested in a hook - and that's its own thread i suppose , but i've come to realize that if i'm going to have a hook, i have to start with that and build the rest of the song around it. that comes back to intent.


one thing i've "unlearned" is the idea that art is created in isolation. i think the saying is good artists borrow, and great artists steal. and i've accepted that being inspired by the works of others is probably the first step in the right direction for most artists to take. the more you read (or listen to), the better. 

I do not know whether I write in a pop medium or in a jazzier medium or whatnot. I do tend towards more of a stream of consciousness style and that 'hooks' tend to elude me...aaacch who knows

As a drummer, I tend to write lyrics to fit a rhythmic pattern.  I like to write to a defined chord progression or hook and make my lyrics fit the music rather than the other way around.  As a writer, I get myself in trouble if I try to write lyrics first and then create music to fit.  When I do this, I tend to get too Profound and my lyrics just sound pompous and pretentious.

Another writer once told me that pop/rock songs combine fine poetry with great music to create a mediocre compromise of both.

My favorite way to write lyrics is to start with a drum/bass/rhythm guitar pattern and create a melodic "template".  This template will define not only the general melody and feel of the vocal line, but also the rhythm of each line.  I'll break it down into the number of syllables for each line.  I'll choose a rhyming scheme (sometimes, I paint myself in a verbal corner with this).  I'll choose a textual topic or story that I think either flows from the mood of the music or is the complete opposite.  I'll write each line to fit the rhyming and rhythmic scheme I've defined.  I'll review the song as a whole to determine if there is a progression of thought or a story line that plays out the way I want to hear it.  If not, then I adjust and/or rewrite as necessary.

Some songs practically write themselves in a single session.  Some take forever.

MakeShift


Music/ Lyric can be poetic, but Poetry is not music.

As you have mentioned U-Bubba, lyric has to follow a rhythmic shceme, melody line and have a sonic timber that is pleasing to the song.  Sometimes, the right word just might not sound right, the way if rolls off you tongue or moves through your vocal chords.  On another forum, I once pointed out to a fellow songwriter that the words he was using had way to many plosives in them and he was never going to be able to sing it with out all kinds of mic troubles.  Sure enough, he said I was dead on when he went to record the song.

I have had to on numberous occasions, change words or entire lines of a verse because they just did not sound "musical" in the finished song. 

+1 Mike ... there is often some give and take of lyrics during production and post-production for me.  I'll add, musicality is tricky for me on many levels.
 
+1 UbiquitousBubba: stated:
"Another writer once told me that pop/rock songs combine fine poetry with great music to create a mediocre compromise of both."
 
I suppose there is a sacrifice/compromise of talents ... that combine to 'make' many pop-songs.  The same holds true with paintings (for me): Like a great portrait can take away from the landscape and vice-versa.
 
OTOH, I myself discovered Danny is a great lyricist and singer (several of my songs): He wrote the lyrics for the verses of "Trouble in the Hood II" ... and sung them impeccably ... albeit well after the chorus-hook and song rhythm and melodics.

PhilipOTOH, I myself discovered Danny is a great lyricist and singer (several of my songs): He wrote the lyrics for the verses of "Trouble in the Hood II" ... and sung them impeccably ... albeit well after the chorus-hook and song rhythm and melodics.

 
LOL you're too kind to me my friend. Even I get lucky once in a while. Hahahaha! :) Thanks for the kind words.
 
Bubba: good post man...this is soo true. I even think it can be applied to the engineering field which is why most times I sound a little anti-science. At the end of the day, all the formula's in the world won't help a person with a great song or a great mix unless they have that spark deep inside....with a little bit of know-how of course.
 
Unlike others, I would say my first 20 songs were really bad. Fair ideas but nothing that would impress anyone other than maybe my family at the time. The more you do it, the better you become.
 
There's another thing too that I feel is super important and that is, jamming with other people or collaborating. When you jam with someone, they will always play something you wouldn't play. Each little segment you learn from a person is something to archive for later.
 
Ever jam with someone and you know a 12-barre blues progression, yet they put a different spin on it that you may have heard yet might not have ever played before? Stuff like this is just priceless because it teaches us formulas and song parts. One you know enough song parts, when you hear people playing them, all you need is the key and you can play along.
 
I do a lot of writing and collaborating with Philip as you know. He's way different than me in the writing department, but because it's so different and his songs are more based on feel instead of formulation, it becomes a challenge to me in a good way. There are times I may have to run one of his riffs back 10 times or more to learn what he's playing to get a feel for it. Once I learn it, it gets logged into my mind and I may use a variation of it at some point for myself or for someone else. Each time I do a project with someone, it teaches me something. I've learned more about music and writing doing it with other people than I have while doing it on my own. Collabs are cool because it sometimes stops a song from being too one-dimensional. I think that's what makes the best songs...when everyone puts a piece of themselves into it.
 
Proof of this is my first album compared to my last album. I thought the first one was a decent oeffort for a one man operation, but the second one smoked it because I had others writing with me giving the songs a bit more luster in different areas. I can't see me ever doing another album all by myself again. It's also more exhilerating to write with others as you begin to feed off of them as they feed off of you. At the end of the day I think I personally get a better song out of it that way. :)
 
-Danny