Does 'Convert Midi Controllers To Envelopes' Work OK?

Greetings; There's a lovely Sonar  feature which -- if i am understanding it correctly -- is suppose to take the midi controller data from a PRV controller pane, and convert it into a Track View automation envelope. The command is found in Track View->Clips->Convert Midi Controllers To Envelopes.
 
I tried it this morning on some PRV controller pane midi data curves set up to drive the filter cutoff value (and other parameters) in NI Massive (using Macro Controls). When i tried the above mentioned command, all i got was a flat envelope in the corresponding Track View midi clip. 
 
I find it far easier to draw controller data in the PRV; this morning i was drawing proups of simultaneous, wildly-fluctuating sweeps for a dubstep bassline. But changing Massive patches means a different set of macros, and midi controller data that works in one patch often doesn't work in other patches. Using track view automation envelopes means it possible to instantly and easily reassign the controller changes to a different parameter, which is a huge feature AFAIC (this is something i haven't figured out how to do with PRV controller pane data -- i haven't seen anything indicating that it's possible to do this).
 
Has anyone tried this Convert Midi Controllers To Envelopes function and got it to work properly?
 
Regards
Glenn
 
 
 

It works here but I use it with hardware synths, not tried a soft synth. IIRC correctly there was a post a while ago about soft synth controller data. While I can't remember the exact nature of that I do recall learning that the controller data is not necessarily recorded on the MIDI track. I think it can be recorded on just about any track.

The option to control that is in the browser  by clicking on the "Insert soft synth Options" dialogue. It's towards the bottom of that page.

Hmm... there's a good chance I'm too stupid to understand this...

I get the same result as you GlennKay but it seems like there's some controller messages being sent anyway. but I don't seem to be able to draw MIDI data using a hardware controller now. Not that it is a problem since I never use it but this feature would be great for when I pick up older projects with loads of MIDI info that I could move over to envelopes.

I only did a quick test tho, I probably have to learn something. Thanks for the tip about this Glenn and FBB!

Enjoy your Sunday!

It works with soft synths, but the envelope will appear flat in a Simple Instrument track. If you split the Instrument track, the envelope appears correctly on the MIDI track.

This is definitely a little buggy, because you'll still see the flatline envelope on the audio/instrument track, and it can be edited but will have no effect because it's MIDI automation on an audio track. 

Yes, you can delete the superfluous flatline envelope on the audio track. And, yes, I did pretty much figure it out by trial and error - maybe with a little deduction thrown in    As ProjectM pointed out, I could hear the envelope working, so I split the Simple Instrument track to see what was going on.

Still seems strange that it should be flat on a simple instrument track though.

To be clear, it's actually a separate envelope. If you go to the Edit Filter drop-down, you can't get to it, but if you Shift-click it, the Edit Filter will change and you can edit it. 

There must just be something goofy about the way Simple Instrument tracks work with the Edit Filter that SONAR can't create the MIDI envelope on the MIDI portion of the track without also creating one on the audio portion.

I'll have to check and see if this was a problem in 8.5 where there was no Edit Filter.

Bug maybe?

Absolutely. I just checked 8.5, and it doesn't create the extra envelope. But it's normal that you don't see MIDI envelopes on Simple Instrument tracks. You have to split them.


BTW, in 8.5, the path to this function is Edit > Extended menu > Convert MIDI to Shapes.

i'm going to try splitting the instrument track first, and then try this command.

That's definitely the way to go. Also, depending on what soft synth it's pointed at, you might get a blank controller listing, and have to type in the controller number you want to convert.

Thanks for the help on this topic, never ever would have figured this out on my own.

Sure thing, Glenn. Glad to help.