Does anybody know how to use loop construction feature?

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redsails23
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2010/07/17 10:07:32 (permalink)

Does anybody know how to use loop construction feature?

 
Has anybody in this forum used the Loop Constuction feature in Music Creator 5? If you have never used this feature (under Views > Loop Construction... I'm NOT talking about the Loop Explorer!) please don't answer this question. I am trying to create short loops from samples of a song, and save them as wavs or whatever. I assumed that the Loop Constuction view was to be used for this purpose, but I can't figure out how to do it. Have any of you used this feature? If you have, step by step instructions would be GREATLY appreciated!!! Please do not assume that I already know anything about Music Creator. I have been trying to figure this out for about 6 months now, and I can't find any information on it anywhere on this website! The help section of the program is not very helpful either. Please have mercy on this poor slob who has no idea what he is doing!
 
Eric
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    Beagle
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    Re:Does anybody know how to use loop construction feature? 2010/07/17 17:49:14 (permalink)
    Eric - I'm thinking that there must be something I'm not understanding about what you're wanting to do because what you're asking is very, very simple, so there must be more to your question?

    I just opened a project in MC5, made a small clip out of an audio track by using the split function.  then highlighted the clip and then clicked on VIEWS>LOOP CONSTRUCTION.  that opens the loop construction window.  if I want to make a wave of this clip, all I have to do is click on the little icon in the upper left corner that looks like a floppy disk and it will pop up a window for saving the clip as a wave file. 

    is there something else you're trying to do?

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    Peter Rabbit
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    Re:Does anybody know how to use loop construction feature? 2010/07/17 17:55:50 (permalink)
    This may be what you're looking for:
     
    Edit: This post didn't post the information correctly as it was supposed to appear. It's all there but it's a bit jumbled. It was supposed to be a table with two columns. The left column said "To do this..." and the right column said " Do this..."
     
    The left column told you the editing options that are available and the right column told you how to do each one. But the table didn't get recongnized by the forum's program and it kind of jumbled it up. All the information is there though, so I hope it helps. 
     
    Actually, I tried to copy and paste this information directly from the help files. To see it in its original format you can open your MC program and on the toolbar go to Help > Help Topics > Index Tab, and then type in the words "Loop Contruction View". You can then follow the links in the help files to get all the information you need.
     
    The following is a list of the tools and controls in the Loop Construction view, followed by a description. For step-by-step instructions, see the links below.
    Save Loop to Wave File Button


    Click the Save Loop to Wave file button  to open the Save As dialog. In the Save As dialog you can save the current loop (Groove clip) as a Riff Wave file, which are compatible with ACIDized loops. You can save Riff Wave files for use with another SONAR project or with ACID.
    Enable Looping Button


    Click the Enable Looping button  to loop clips in the Track view by dragging the right side of a clip with your mouse. When Enable Looping is not on, you are able to slip-edit the clip. Beats in Clip Field

     
    The number of beats (quarter notes) in the clip.
    Enable Stretching Button


    The Enable Stretching button  instructs SONAR to stretch or shrink the clip to fit the project's tempo. The Beats in Clip and Original BPM parameters are used to make the change.
    Original BPM Field


     The tempo at which the clip was recorded.
    Follow Project Pitch Button


    The Follow Project Pitch option  transposes the loop, if necessary, to the key of the project. A loop recorded in the key of A, used in a project in the key of C, would be transposed up three semitones if the Follow Project Pitch checkbox was checked.
    Root Note Field


     The Root Note represents the key in which the loop was recorded. The Follow Project Pitch feature uses this information, when checked, to transpose the loop to match the project's key.
    Pitch Field (coarse)


     You can set the transposition of a clip, independent from the project pitch, using the Pitch (coarse) field. A positive number transposes the clip up by that number of semitones. A negative number transposes the clip down by that number of semitones. Remember that, if the Follow Project Pitch option is checked, the clip follows the project's pitch, so any transposition changes you make using this option are changes to the project pitch, not the clip pitch.
    An example: The project key is C. The clip key is D. If the Follow Project Pitch option is checked, the clip is transposed down by two semitones. A value entered into the Pitch (semitone) field adjusts the pitch from C. If you enter "-1" the pitch would be transposed down by one additional semitone to B.
    Another example: The clip pitch is E. The desired clip pitch is D. If the Follow Project Pitch option is not checked, and a value of "2" is entered in the Pitch (semitones) field, the clip is transposed down two semitones to D from the original pitch of E.
    Pitch Field (fine)


     The Pitch (fine) field allows you to make tuning adjustments or to transpose the pitch of a clip up to 50 cents. There are 100 cents in one semitone. A Pitch (fine) setting of "1" adjusts the pitch up one hundredth of a semitone. The Pitch (fine) option can "fine tune" a slightly out of tune clip so that it is in pitch with the remaining clips in a project.
    Stop Preview Button

    The Stop Preview button  stops loop playback.
    Preview Loop Button

    Plays the current loop repeatedly. Use the Stop Preview control  to stop playback.
    Enable Slice Auto Preview

    Turns on slice auto preview.
    Slice Auto Preview

    This control appears grayed out unless the Enable Slice Auto Preview options is on. This option loops the slice auto preview.
    Preview Bus Field


     Select the output through which you want to listen to the clip.
    Clip Properties 

    The Properties button opens the Clip Properties dialog.

    Select Tool

    Use the Select tool  to move markers in the Markers bar.
    Erase Tool

    Use the Erase tool  to delete markers in the Markers bar.
    Default All Markers Tool

    The Default All Markers tool  restores all automatically generated markers to the original position and enables all those that were disabled. Manually created markers remain as is.
    Slices Resolution

    The Slice Resolution control sets the resolution for the creation of markers, or the "slicing" of the looped clip. This control uses note lengths, so the settings are:
      No Slicing Whole notes Half notes Quarter notes Eighth notes Sixteenth notes Thirty-second notes
    The automatic markers appear at the note resolutions according to the slider setting. At the eighth note setting, there are eight markers per measure.
    This control works well for slicing audio that has more subtle changes in volume with few dramatic transients.
    The markers in a loop clip preserve the timing of the audio at that moment. Too few or too many markers can cause unwanted "artifacts" when a loop clip is stretched.
    Transient Detection

    The Transient Detection control senses transients in your audio clip and assigns a marker at the beginning and end of each one it finds. As you increase the number in this field, smaller transients are detected and the number of markers increases.
    Move to Previous Slice

    Moves the slice selection to the previous slice in the loop.
    Move to Next Slice

    Moves the slice selection to the next slice in the loop.
    Show/Hide Gain Envelope

    Toggle on or off the display of a gain envelope.
    Show/Hide Pan Envelope

    Toggle on or off the display of a pan envelope.
    Show/Hide Pitch Envelope

    Toggle on or off the display of a pitch envelope.
    Slice Gain Control

    Change the gain setting for the selected slice.
    Slice Pan Control

    Change the pan setting for the selected slice.
    Slice Pitch Control

    Change the pitch setting for the selected slice.
    Slicing Markers


     
    There are two types of slicing markers in the Loop Construction view: automatic and manual. Automatic markers appear in red and are automatically generated by SONAR when you loop enable a clip. The one exception to this is if you import an ACIDized wave file into SONAR. ACIDized files always appear with manual slicing markers. Manual markers appear in purple. If you add a marker or move an automatic marker, it turns purple to show you that it has been edited.
     
    Beat Markers

     
    Beat Markers mark where the beats fall in your clip. There are as many beat markers as there are beats in a clip.
     
    Any audio clip can be converted to a Groove clip. Groove clips contain tempo, beat, and pitch information which SONAR uses to stretch and transpose the clips to match the project. Most Groove clips are loop-enabled, meaning that you can use the mouse to drag clip repetitions in the Track view. Groove clips can be either loop-enabled or not, although they usually are. When a Groove clip is loop-enabled, its edges appear beveled. It is sometimes desirable to create clips that follow the project's tempo and key, but are not intended to loop. The following is a list of the attributes contained in a Groove clip:
      Beats in clip--The number of quarter notes in a clip. A four measure clip in 4/4 time should have 16 beats. When you enable looping for a clip, SONAR calculates the number of beats in the clip using an algorithm. This calculation is very often accurate, but in some cases, for instance when the clip has a very slow or very fast tempo or if the clip has an unusual number of beats, then the number of beats in a clip may have to be edited manually in the Beats in clip field. Original tempo--The original tempo of the recording. SONAR uses the original tempo to adjust to your project's tempo. The original tempo must be specified for stretching clips.
    Note: When you loop-enable a clip, SONAR calculates the original tempo of the clip, and unless the clip's length is in exact beat or measure increments, the original tempo that SONAR calculates may vary from the recorded tempo. These fluctuations are usually quite small and do not affect the quality of the Groove clip you create.
      Reference note--The original key of the recorded clip. SONAR uses the Reference note when it transposes Groove clips to match your project's pitch.
    These attributes can be edited in the Loop Construction view.
     
    To Set the Number of Beats in a Groove Clip
    When you open a clip in the Loop Construction view, SONAR determines the number of beats in the clip. In some cases the beat value may not be correct. The beats in clip value can only be changed if the clip is loop enabled.
    Do the following to change value in the Beats in Clip field.
      Click the plus or minus button to the right of the Beats in clip field until the correct value is displayed.
    To Change the Loop Construction View Time Ruler Display

    You can display the Loop Construction view Time Ruler in measures or in samples. To toggle between the two modes, double click the Time Ruler.
    To Set the Tempo of a Groove Clip

    When creating a new Groove clip, SONAR sets the clip's tempo to the current project tempo. To ensure proper stretching behavior you must set the value in the Original BPM field to the tempo at which you recorded the clip. The tempo value of a clip can only be changed if the clip is stretch-enabled.
    Do the following to change the value in the Original BPM field.
      Click the plus or minus button to the right of the Original BPM field until the correct value is displayed. For more precise tempos you can double-click in the Original BPM field and enter a tempo.
    To Slice a Groove Clip

    Double-click on a clip in the Clips pane.
      The clip appears in the Loop Construction view. Slice the clip using one or all of the following methods:
        To do this...


        Do this...
        Slice the clip on note divisions


        Move the Basic Slicing slider to the note resolution you want. The Basic Slicing slider's settings range from whole notes to 64th notes. Selecting quarter notes, for example, would create four markers per measure.
        Slice the clip at transient peaks


        Enter a value into the Transient Detection (Trans Detect %) text field or use the increment/decrement buttons. The larger transients in the clip will be flanked by markers.
        Slice the clip manually


        Move your mouse to the space above the Time Ruler and double-click to add a marker. Click and drag the marker, if necessary, so it aligns with the beginning or end of a transient.

        Play your project and adjust the slicing of your clip as necessary.
          Note: You can use any or all of these methods to slice a clip. If you adjust both the Slices and Trans Detect menus, two markers may be placed right next to each other. If these markers are too close, the markers will automatically merge. Manual markers will not automatically merge.
          To Transpose a Groove Clip to Match Your Project's Pitch

          Follow this procedure to force the Groove clip to follow the project's default pitch.
          Double-click the clip you want to transpose to the project's pitch.
            The clip appears in the Loop Construction view. Click the Follow Project Pitch button.
              To Transpose a Groove Clip by Semitones

              Follow this procedure to transpose a Groove clip by any number of semitones.
              Double-click the clip you want to transpose to the project's pitch.
                The clip appears in the Loop Construction view. If the Follow Project Pitch button is enabled, click it to disable it. In the Pitch (semitones) field, enter the number of semitones you want to transpose the clip by. A negative number in the Pitch (semitones) field transposes a clip down. A positive number in the Pitch (semitones) field transposes the clip up.
                  To "Fine Tune" a Groove Clip

                  Follow this procedure to make slight pitch changes to a clip.
                  Double-click the clip you want to transpose to the project's pitch.
                    The clip appears in the Loop Construction view. In the Fine Pitch (cents) field, enter the number of cents you want to adjust the pitch. You can enter a number from -50 (transpose the pitch down by a quarter tone) to 50 (transpose the pitch up by a quarter tone).
                      To Edit the Slicing Markers in a Groove Clip

                      The table below describes how to create and edit the slicing markers in the Loop Construction view.
                      To do this...


                      Do this...
                      Add a slicing marker


                      Move the mouse cursor to the Markers bar, at the beginning of a transient and double-click.
                      Delete a slicing marker


                      Select the Eraser tool  and click on a marker.
                      Move a slicing marker


                      Click and drag a marker
                      Reset slicing markers to original positions


                      Click the Default All Markers button  .

                      post edited by Peter Rabbit - 2010/07/17 18:22:47

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                      Guitarhacker
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                      Re:Does anybody know how to use loop construction feature? 2010/07/17 23:21:59 (permalink)
                      Pete... did you write all that?

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                      RobertB
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                      Re:Does anybody know how to use loop construction feature? 2010/07/18 00:17:07 (permalink)
                      Eric, I'm with Beagle on this.
                      Loop construction is fairly straighforward, but it does have some quirks (the biggest is keeping the loop set to the correct number of beats).
                      Is there a specific aspect that is giving you trouble?

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                      redsails23
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                      Re:Does anybody know how to use loop construction feature? 2010/07/22 20:28:45 (permalink)
                       
                      Beagle, that is EXACTLY what I'm trying to do. Could you elaborate a little on how you used the split function and what tool you used to highlight the clip? I need details :) I tried selecting the section I wanted to use, but it did not appear selected when I went into loop construction veiw.
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                      Beagle
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                      Re:Does anybody know how to use loop construction feature? 2010/07/22 20:52:12 (permalink)
                      either click on the scissors tool icon then click on the waveform at the place you want to split (which will split based on the snap to grid settings), or right click and choose the split time.

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                      Robomusic
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                      Re:Does anybody know how to use loop construction feature? 2010/07/23 14:18:28 (permalink)
                      One trick i have always used in loop construction is to set the loop region markers. Then slowly adjust these until the section loops flawlessly, then use the split tool to "cut" the looped area from the rest and right click that and set the parameters. This will asure a smooth loop.

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                      redsails23
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                      Re:Does anybody know how to use loop construction feature? 2010/08/15 20:07:45 (permalink)
                       
                      Success! I figured out how to create loops by setting the loop markers, right clicking to select the loop area, spliting the selection, deleting the unwanted clips, and then exporting as a wav. I still don't know my way around the loop construction area, but the system I'm using works fine without it. One thing that was messing me up is that Music Creator won't give you the split dialog box if the free edit tool is selected. MC has some great features, but need a more in-depth help section for us newbies.
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                      57Gregy
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                      Re:Does anybody know how to use loop construction feature? 2010/08/15 23:07:15 (permalink)
                      There's a free edit tool? I learned something new.
                      Glad you figured it out.

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