Does anyone submit to A&R reps anymore?

I know 10-20 years ago, the proper formula was to record a demo and submit it to A&R reps for different labels. Does this still hold true, and if so, where can I get a current list of reps who are accepting unsolicited submissions? (And have any of you submitted recently?)

It's really frustrating, I had the ultimate list of A&R reps who were willing to give a listen. This was about 8 years ago. The other day I tried one of the numbers and got the front desk operator who told me there was no such person. Someone in the background said... "oh, I remember her... wow that was ages ago, 4 or 5 years, she's long gone."

Got the same story from the other numbers I tried. Is the turnover rate that bad?

Spaceduck


I know 10-20 years ago, the proper formula was to record a demo and submit it to A&R reps for different labels. Does this still hold true, and if so, where can I get a current list of reps who are accepting unsolicited submissions? (And have any of you submitted recently?)

It's really frustrating, I had the ultimate list of A&R reps who were willing to give a listen. This was about 8 years ago. The other day I tried one of the numbers and got the front desk operator who told me there was no such person. Someone in the background said... "oh, I remember her... wow that was ages ago, 4 or 5 years, she's long gone."

Got the same story from the other numbers I tried. Is the turnover rate that bad?

I would say the paradigm shifted. Its a whole new market out there, esp in the last 8 years.

I have 3 sources.... well maybe 2 and a third as a last resort....

I submit material to Taxi...joined recently, with a few submissions...needless to say, the bar there is pretty high, especially the market I'm shooting for.....country music top 40 artists. My reviews from them have been pretty accurate and very encouraging.  According to one review of one song, it was "almost" across home plate, but they would be submitting against the best writers in Nashville for a major artist and the song needed  "more". In my book...that's freaking cool.  Gotta keep writing.......

Second place is Pumpaudio.... I have submitted there as well...again the bar is high. Several attempts with some good songs have been returned, but I just recently submitted some new material and this time got green-lighted to submit my music to them that they are interested in licensing. I'm in on this one.

Third... I used to use this avenue alot in the past...and might in the future. The Songwriters Market Guide. It takes alot of reading and writing to browse the A&R, publishers, and record companies that might be interested in your tunes...... you should always write first, before sending a package with music. The big problem here is many of the slime balls of the music industry are listed in that book along with the good ones and you don't know wo is who...and you'll end up on lots of shark lists.

or BMI (me)

Directly promote no, help you access tools and information to help you promote yourself and or find others is more about what they can provide.

Honestly, I don't like them. These are the guys who told boy scouts they could not sing camp songs around the fire without licensing, or if your phone rings in a public place you should pay a fee for each person who heard the ring tone.

Like RIAA, they are insane, but they control 90% of the us market. They claim to support the artist, but really, they are just a like any modern trade union... out to support themselves, not the people they represent.

ASCAP  & BMI are not in the promotion business. They are in the business of collecting performance royalties for songs that are already recorded and making money.   They will give you some advice, because it's in their best interest to help you, but they are not publishers or A&R or record companies.

   I'm not really one to give advice because I'm not mr success
myself. Almost always when a question is asked here on
the forum it cannot be answered simply. there are just so many
variables to consider.  Please don't get me wrong in what I'm
about to say here because I'm referring to the  (common sense
logistics of the subject).

  People generally (think) they've done something by submitting
something. Then to get a song published sometimes some people
think "wows that's cool".  there are so many issues that can
either "pump up" a person or do the opposite and get you down.

  if we take the question of submitting to a & r or anyone for
that matter it implies we want to "sell some stuff". there are
tons of books/ information on so many areas connected to
this subject.

  I was a member of one of the songwriter groups in nashville.
once a week we brought in songs and we all listened
and commented. As I look back now it was all meaningless.
I'm not one to slam commercial radio and call it all garbage.
there are some great songs out there but there is way more
"crap".

  In short the whole industry has and is doing a poor job of
getting large amounts of high quality music to the ears of
the public but it gets worse. what does the public want?
well its obvious we know what "jimmy" wants however:

  (here is an example) the other day a girl calls in a request
for a "prince" tune. ( I was listening to a pop station).
after i got sick to my stomach and vomited I had to go grab
a beer and try and get some relief.

  O.K. so now back to the submitting subject. its like fishing.
if i go throw out my hook in water where there are no fish
then something tells me i need to do something.
either there are no fish or they aren't interested in my worm.

  I guess you can tell i'm saying promote yourself but that
in itself requires a  few things too. in some shape form or
fashion there has to be substance to promote. Even that
in itself isn't enough though. what is the answer to all this?

  Connect with the people.

 

..."are a lot of good musicians going to get buried simply because they don't have good business sense?"

If the largest measure of "success" is exposure and earnings, the answer is yes. If the definition is refinement of skills and/or improvement in quality of music and instrument play, then not so much.

Simplify the equation, think of your local bands. The most successful bands may not be the best group of musicians, but a band with at least one member who understands exposure, the business end. How to establish relations with bar/club owners, build sets based on local musical taste, proper appearance of the band to fit into higher quality venues, etc.

Music has always been a business, we are, or should be in it to make money. Insurance companies are not in business to insure people, they are in business to make money, they just use insurance as the vehicle. Same with any other business. Once you get past the "dirty" feeling of working within the system you can work the system to your advantage.

Later
Albert

Spaceduck


The problem is what if it's physically not possible? I'm just not a people person. Even exchanging 5 words with the checkout cashier at the grocery store sucks the life out of me, so I've realized a long time ago I'm not the right person to go out there & sell sell sell. Without going into the psychosis of the whole thing, I think my years doing the hardcore music circuit really scrambled my brains.

I can't do it alone. Nobody can IMO.

I am slowly recruiting a buddy of mine for the reasons you yourself are describing. He is a very dynamic and outgoing person, very confident. He is also somewhat physically imposing. Not huge, but a good size. University educated. He could make the perfect PR Guy/manager.

Like you, I recognize that I am but one person, with limited time and resources. With somebody to take care of the managerial aspect, I will have the time to do what I like best - the art. But I am viewing it in very much the traditional way. There are artists and there are businessmen. Like the members of a band, each person has a strength that the others need to succeed. We have the artists, we have the engineers, producers... now we need to look outward. This is where he or a person like him comes in.

He finds and negotiates the gigs, he talks to agents, execs, takes and hands out cards. He starts taking over the crew and equipment. And as that grows, we start to branch those off. Very much a traditional approach, but also knowing that the paradigm is shifting, but not fully shifted, we need to take a hybrid approach with our sights (to coin my own line recently) fixed clearly on the future goal.

As we slowly move forward with this hybrid/traditional business plan, we also do so with the knowledge that part of the reasons for the paradigm shift are the problems with the current industry (particularly artists and consumers rights).

I think there will always be a need for the traditional model. It is what takes it to the next level. It just will have a whole lot more competition and is that not what capitalism is about? (calling a spade a spade).

Does anyone submit to A&R anymore?

I rather they submit to ME!!! :-P

Actually another way is to get a good manager, publicist or  producer who is well known and highly respected in the music biz to refer your works to A&R. (Managers usually make a quick call, and then you follow up on it from thereon) that's the best way for anyone interested in seeking out a publishing deal, for a record deal? best to build up the 'vibe' first... have a good fan base, good articles, reviews, perform regularly, video clip, aired on TV, radio exposure also. The whole process is no easy walk in the park. *Bottom line is... if you want a major record deal you have to get the ball rolling and then hit A&R whilst the iron is HOT!!!

Spaceduck


Great thoughts here, gang. I'm hearing the general idea is to self-promote, book gigs, network, sell online... essentially do the job that the record labels used to do for you back in the old days. I fully agree with the DIY approach (in business as well as in life).

The problem is what if it's physically not possible? I'm just not a people person. Even exchanging 5 words with the checkout cashier at the grocery store sucks the life out of me, so I've realized a long time ago I'm not the right person to go out there & sell sell sell. Without going into the psychosis of the whole thing, I think my years doing the hardcore music circuit really scrambled my brains.

Now my only talent lies in locking myself in a studio and writing/recording/playing my butt off. I think that may describe a lot of us. So are we doomed to eternal obscurity? That's where, in the old days of record labels, at least you had a chance of finding someone who, without charging you money, would invest in your music and act as a broker between you & the real world.

That's how music has always been, hasn't it? Beethoven, Mozart, etc never sold their manuscripts on the street; they always got commissioned by emperors, kings, dukes & other wealthy benefactors. Without these "record labels", they would probably just be another bunch of crooning street musicians who disappear into obscurity.

So my thought is, with the downfall of big record labels, creating sort of a musical anarchy out here, are a lot of good musicians going to get buried simply because they don't have good business sense? Not that I consider myself a good musician, but I surely don't have any business sense

but did they REALLY do it that way?   Even in the 70's and 80's people in the music biz were on the make.
I did a lot of fruitless knocking on record company doors in the late 70's early 80's.  I've got nothing left but cynicism and sore knuckles.  Not that my music should have made it but that the impression I got was that it was all a front for getting the cutest most naive women into bed (then they turned down my resume too!!).   OR you had a kick ass band that had a local following and was selling a lot of booze at good club so it caught attention...(cynical or what???)
For the songwriter it's always been difficult....*violins please*......There are so many scams (as we all know) out there in the guise of songwriting contests and promotional vehicles that play on our believing in our own music.   
 
I suspect it has to do with another kind of timing and placing...and perhaps it has to do with a super human effort (one pointed super focused hard hard work networking and getting the word out) , which I am not able (willing) to do. 
I think the future is bleak (so is the past IMO) for nerdy artist types (all of us).  I (we) simply am incapable of promoting myself.   It's a gene that's missing.   Not people person either...i don't even go IN the store, send in the dog with a list and a check on his collar.
 
On the other hand, I do think we're on the verge of another approach to this whole thing......I think it has to do with custom playlists and internet 'radio' stations and maybe cakewalk songmonster conferences where regions gather and create a kind of buzz (that's what it's REALLY all about).  People will show up just to check out the buzz and the girls and all in the midst of OUR MUSIC!
 

Spaceduck.... I just re-read your OP... If your list is more than 1 yr old...it's outta date.... maybe even sooner. This is a dog eat dog business... in the high stakes world these people live in..... one wrong venture and they're pounding the sidewalk. People change jobs all the time, move from one company to the next, looking for the next step on the ladder to the corner office on the top floor....

I had a publisher sign a bunch of my earlier songs many years ago..... the contracts were legit, but then after he started angeling to get me to spend a huge amount of money to come to N-ville and record MY CD and he would promote me as an artist.....did he think I was stupid? ...or rich? so basically my songs were tied up and worthless for the terms...... when the song contracts expired and the songs reverted back to me I contacted his office about the reversion....to be sure it was done properly.... he had died....but I did get the songs back.   Another pub who signed my tunes was planning to record one of them...the band broke up the week before the sessions were to happen.... This kinda stuff goes on ALL the time.

Companies come and go all the time in this business...especially the smaller ones. You really have to stay busy and keep on top of it (your list) to keep it current and clean from sharks.