DragonBlood
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Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
I'm looking at control surfaces and I remember hearing some complaints about Sonar's ability to send machine data back and forth to different devices.
The one I'm settling on (even though I think it's sorta ugly looking) is the Behringer X-Touch with an X-Touch Compact expansion. (which uses Mackie)
Will Sonar X3 work with this device without a hitch? and what problems does Sonar X3 have with devices so I can avoid them.
On a sidenote, I wish I could just get an Avid Artist Mix, but I know the Euphonix line of products have minor issues with Sonar.
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Anderton
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/10 11:06:37
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DragonBlood
On a sidenote, I wish I could just get an Avid Artist Mix, but I know the Euphonix line of products have minor issues with Sonar.
Don't know the answer to the Behringer question, but what are the Artist Series issues? I tested with Sonar when they first came out and they worked fine. Not sure if any subsequent updates on either side messed with that.
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DragonBlood
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/10 11:33:33
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The issue with the Artist series of products (not the Artist Mix specifically) was that you cant use or take advantage of the touch screen on the Artist Control.
Which would seem like a very specific thing to Avid cause that thing as a ton of features in it.
My only other problem is I dont have $1400 to buy it :)
edit: Oh and the wheel on it wouldn't work properly as well.
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Anderton
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/10 12:04:42
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DragonBlood
The issue with the Artist series of products (not the Artist Mix specifically) was that you cant use or take advantage of the touch screen on the Artist Control.
Ah, that explains it. I was using only the Artist Mix.
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Thatsastrat
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/10 13:29:12
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I use the Berhringer BCF2000 control surface in X3 in Mackie mode. The thing that does not work well is controlling the Pro Channel. Only the top effect in the chain in a pro channel window can be manipulated. In the effects window I can select any effect in a chain and control any parameter. I use mine to mix mostly,(volume and pan) automation. I just find it faster to use the mouse for tweeking effects, and for editing tracks. For adding tracks, selecting tracks, record enable tracks, mute or solo tracks, it works great.
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Blades
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/10 14:48:47
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Backing what Thatastrat said...BCF2000 here as well. I wish that the old EQ controls would still work the way they used to because it was a good intuitive way to control logically. The ProChannel being the default EQ doesn't work the same way, so it kind of broke that aspect. Aside from that, it works well for the other functions mentioned above.
That new Behringer interface looks pretty cool for the fact that it has a lot more control buttons on it and is better labeled (i.e. at all) than the BCF2000 is. If all those extra features actually work as they are supposed to in Sonar, I'd imagine that it would be a hit. I'd just make sure to get it from somewhere with a good return policy.
Also, since the Mackie DLL is now open source, I hope that someone with some programming experience will take up the challenge to try to pull something together that will get some more function out of the dll.
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Jürgen Gleisberg
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/10 15:18:26
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Hi,
is the Behringer X-Touch now available in the US? I am from Germany and here it is not available this time. What about the Behringer Motör-Keys? Are those available in the US? They will also use Mackie Control Protocol.
Timo
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DragonBlood
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/10 22:02:49
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well what control surfaces do work well with Sonar X3? I need one that's very good and comfortable, that wont drive me nuts. Also, is there a difference between Mackie and Midi mode when controlling Sonar? (X3) Timo Finkbeiner
Hi,
is the Behringer X-Touch now available in the US? I am from Germany and here it is not available this time. What about the Behringer Motör-Keys? Are those available in the US? They will also use Mackie Control Protocol.
Timo
No, B&H Photo says it's expect October 30 though.
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Jürgen Gleisberg
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/11 09:37:10
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I don't know which control surfaces work well in Sonar X3. In the past, some people had problems with the Behringer X32 to get it work as it should. Some found out, that if you choose the VS-700 instead of mackie protocol in sonar it works. So it looked like a general problem between Sonar and Behringer and its mackie protocol. I use a Behringer UFX 1204 this time and there you have also control buttons for play, stop, record, forward, ... . When you choose makie protocol, nothing happened, but when choosing the VS-700, it works in Sonar X3. So I think there is still a little problem between Sonar and Behringer regarding there mackie protocol. Don't know why and why this is not in other DAW's. So maybe this problem still exists with the new X-Touch-Controllers. Before nobody had tested it we don't know.
Kind regards, Timo
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Anderton
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/11 10:15:24
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My general experience is that the Mackie Control basics - faders, bank select, and panpots - pretty much always work. When you get into other functions, matters get more variable. For example I tested the SSL Nucleus, which worked with Sonar except if you tried to adjust the buses, it would lock up. Apparently someone at SSL came up with a template for Sonar but I haven't had a chance to try it.
Also remember that Mackie Control is a specification, not a standard. Controllers can implement as much or as little of the specification as they want. FYI the VS-700 is a Mackie-compatible controller - I use it as a control surface with Sonar Vegas and Propellerheads Reason.
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Grem
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/11 10:41:04
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@Craig: Sonar Vegas
That was a good one!!
Grem
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Anderton
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/11 11:09:54
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Grem
@Craig: Sonar Vegas
That was a good one!!
Autocomplete - tool of Satan?
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TMG
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/11 11:58:29
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Hey DragonBlood. I realise this may not be useful but I thought I'd post just in case - I bought a second hand Mackie Control off eBay for £350 (which I consider to be a bargain!) about a year ago and it works very well in Sonar X3, I've yet to come across a problem.
Sonar X3e Producer 64-bit Intel i7-3770 3.4GHz 12 GB RAM Windows 7 64-bit Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
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konradh
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/11 13:39:20
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Is Tascam working on a console optimized for Sonar (similar to the V-Studio which I currently use)?
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Anderton
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/11 15:13:08
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I don't know, but if I did, I couldn't tell you anyway.
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rodreb
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/11 20:06:49
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Still using my trusty old Tascam US 2400 here. Still pisses me off that they totally abandoned / orphaned it but, oh well. All the stuff I need works fine on it.
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GaryMedia
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/11 21:06:55
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My Behringer X32 Mackie Control function works fine in SONAR X3. I've not found a way to make it control busses yet, but the basic volume and read/write, meters and transport controls work fine. I never try to invoke control of plug-ins with it.
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stxx
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/12 12:39:19
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De careful with Behringer. The cheap control surfaces are NOT touch sensitive and will NOT track automation curves properly. I bought a secondhand Tascam FW 1884 and only use the control surface part and its perfect. All the basic functions work (Faders, Pan, Mute and Solo). None of the Mackie protocol interfaces can properly handle ProChannel. I had the Behringer and sent it back. You can get the tascam for around 300. Also, IF you want another interface, you can use that too but I bypass the interface and use only yhr control surface. I use Focusrite interface. With the cheaper Behringer, if you are trying to write an automation curve, only tracks the actual movement and then sets back to zero rather than stay at the point you moved to. If you are looking for FULL X3 support, I do not think there is anything out there that supports it except MAYBE the discontinued VS 700
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Splat 
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/12 12:44:00
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stxx
De careful with Behringer. The cheap control surfaces are NOT touch sensitive and will NOT track automation curves properly. I bought a secondhand Tascam FW 1884 and only use the control surface part and its perfect. All the basic functions work (Faders, Pan, Mute and Solo). None of the Mackie protocol interfaces can properly handle ProChannel. I had the Behringer and sent it back. You can get the tascam for around 300. Also, IF you want another interface, you can use that too but I bypass the interface and use only yhr control surface. I use Focusrite interface. With the cheaper Behringer, if you are trying to write an automation curve, only tracks the actual movement and then sets back to zero rather than stay at the point you moved to. If you are looking for FULL X3 support, I do not think there is anything out there that supports it except MAYBE the discontinued VS 700
Really? My eyes (inc OP) are firmly on this controller as are a lot of people I suspect... I guess I'm looking for specific answers on this particular model myself... So far from reading this thread I am led to conclude there are issues with pro channel. I assume console view works.Assuming this is the case I guess this is a Sonar issues rather than something to do with the controller? Would be nice if a Cake employee could chime on here to give us some idea of the actual picture rather than what I'm perceiving.. Which may be right or wrong.. BEHRINGER X-Touch http://youtu.be/AUh_3BQLyOs
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fitzj
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/13 18:34:00
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What happened the project that cakewalk announced sometime back that they would release the Mackie code on the open market and qualified members with experience in midi controllers would fix any issues and add new functionality?
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Splat
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/13 19:05:36
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fitzj
What happened the project that cakewalk announced sometime back that they would release the Mackie code on the open market and qualified members with experience in midi controllers would fix any issues and add new functionality?
https://github.com/Cakewalk/Cakewalk-Control-Surface-SDK Last checkin was 22nd March... Yup everybody is lining up....
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Anderton
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/13 19:55:22
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I'm always shocked how few people use control surfaces. When I ask at seminars how many people use control surfaces, only a few people raise their hands. Most seem to mix with a mouse, which IMHO makes it impossible to treat a mix like a performance.
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Blades
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/13 22:35:33
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With the cheaper Behringer, if you are trying to write an automation curve, only tracks the actual movement and then sets back to zero rather than stay at the point you moved to.
Really? Is this just an X3 thing? I'll need to check this with my Behringer BCF2000. The video I did for my website about the BCF (I can't believe this was Sonar 7). At around 80% through the video, I show how to record automation and I don't have this problem there. I'll have to try this same thing in X3 and see if it behaves as it used to or not. Hopefully this is not another one of those weird things that stopped working in the X-line of Sonar (that I missed).
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Anderton
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/13 23:20:10
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Blades
With the cheaper Behringer, if you are trying to write an automation curve, only tracks the actual movement and then sets back to zero rather than stay at the point you moved to.
Really? Is this just an X3 thing? I'll need to check this with my Behringer BCF2000.
I'll be curious what you find. I've used the BCF2000 with Sonar and never had any problems, once I had it set up correctly - which was never easy, and often required several trips to the Behringer site to get updates or app notes. But once I got it working, it stayed working as long as I always used it with the same USB port.
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Splat
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/14 11:18:41
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Blades
With the cheaper Behringer, if you are trying to write an automation curve, only tracks the actual movement and then sets back to zero rather than stay at the point you moved to.
Really? Is this just an X3 thing? I'll need to check this with my Behringer BCF2000.
The video I did for my website about the BCF (I can't believe this was Sonar 7). At around 80% through the video, I show how to record automation and I don't have this problem there. I'll have to try this same thing in X3 and see if it behaves as it used to or not. Hopefully this is not another one of those weird things that stopped working in the X-line of Sonar (that I missed).
In the old days of moving fader you had an absolute and relative moving fader modes. Maybe it's something like that (I appreciate these may not be moving faders).
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GaryMedia
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/14 23:48:59
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I am still unsuccessful in finding a way to toggle my X32 faders to run busses in X3 (or X1). My new (desperate) strategy is to assign a couple of X32 buttons to send MIDI note and value to SONAR to toggle the faders from tracks to busses.
Anyone out there happen to know (or has documentation) on what MIDI note or pgm change corresponds to the Track/Bus buttons in the Control Section of the Mackie Control surface?
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stxx
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/19 18:03:09
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I had the BCF2000 and got rid of it. If I'm tracking volume automation for example and I move the fader up and I get to the place where I want it to stay, the curve will drop back to the center or zero position. I researched it and in fact the faders are not actually touch sensitive on that unit and Sonar only senses the actual midi movement but I could not find a way to have the (volume) curve to remain at the different endpoints so I end up with a curve looking like this: ____/|____|\_______ So the curve writes the upward movement, drops back to zero when I stop moving and then tracks the down ward movement leaving me with an written automation curve that is unusable. If someone knows how to make this work correctly, share with others. I now use a touch sensitive Tascam 1884 and all works well. Frontier alpha track also works correctly as will likely the NEW Behringer stuff
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DragonBlood
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/19 22:43:59
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I need a solution to work with lots of tracks because I plan to do lots of mixing and post-production on film projects.
I honestly may just have to shell out the money for the Avid Artist Mix surfaces if nothing else works well. Does anybody know how well the Artist Mix works and does anything even control pro channel? (I really like Pro Channel EQ)
I'm just looking for options cause nobody seems to have anything that works completely and I'm unsure of what even really works.
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Thatsastrat
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/20 12:23:14
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If you are wanting to make use of the motorized faders, you will have to run in Mackie mode or you will not get any feedback to the faders. Only the Mackie mode provides this. In generic surface mode in Sonar you gain a little more control, but loose the feedback from motorized faders.
Sonar Platimum, Win10 32bit, Quad Q6600,4G DDR2 Ram, BCF2000, Lexicon Lambda interface,Tascam US 1800, WD 500 GB HD, M-Audio AV40 Monitors, Line 6 DI Gold, Guitar Rig 5 Pro, hand full of guitars, Kawia PH50 Keyboard,Digitech GNX3 http://www.soundclick.com/thatsastrat/%3C/a%3E http://www.myspace.com/thatsastrat/music
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Blades
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Re: Does the Mackie Control protocol work properly in Sonar X3?
2014/08/21 21:57:13
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Stxx - never had this issue before. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I will have to take a stab at this in X3 and make sure that I don't have the issue now, but I can imagine that it would be frustrating and useless for automation for it to behave this way. Almost sounds like there was already automation on the track to have the volume at zero that was being READ while the automation was being recorded, causing the volume to jump to the level that was being read when there wasn't anything actively replacing it in write mode.
Also, regarding the "touch sensitive" part, it's true that they aren't touch sensitive, but you have to barely move the slider for it to engage. Touch sensitive would make it engage when simply touched, not moved. This particular aspect was never an issue for me since the move required to get the fader's attention was so small.
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