Don't Make Better Mixes...

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Dave King
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2010/08/23 21:26:16 (permalink)

Don't Make Better Mixes...

It's been said before, but there's some good food for thought in this blog post:
 
http://kimlajoie.wordpress.com/2010/08/23/dont-make-better-mixes-make-better-music/

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    ba_midi
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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/23 22:52:34 (permalink)
    Dave King


    It's been said before, but there's some good food for thought in this blog post:
     
    http://kimlajoie.wordpress.com/2010/08/23/dont-make-better-mixes-make-better-music/

    This is actually an interesting topic in many ways.  
     
    Last night I was listening to a bunch of different artists/styles randomly with friends.  One style was hard house music - which I like; another was John Legend - which I also like.   The two are extremely different, of course.
     
    From a _purely_ production point of view (my own that is), I love the depth and creativity that goes into some of the house stuff.  Great tricks, interesting twists, etc.   (Not all house is the same, mind you).
     
    BUT - when it came to listening to John Legend, it's as if the producer(s) decide the backing tracks weren't nearly as important as having John's voice and piano way out front and stealing the listener's ear.
     
    At the end of the day - if John Legend's stuff was produced with the same 'weight' as house or other top40/commercial music, it may not work at all.
     
    And, because his voice, and the songs, were so powerful - it works.
     
    I think one of the most challenging things a producer/artist has to do is decide what 'weight' various elements in a production get -- including the mix.
     
     

    Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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    #2
    bitflipper
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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/23 23:29:24 (permalink)
    Some good advice in that blog.

    I was just listening to some early Nat King Cole recordings earlier today. A three-piece band: piano, guitar and bass.

    The first thing my ears zeroed in on was the utter lack of electronic compression - what a difference that makes! Cole was a top-tier singer (and pianist, too) who worked the mic to control dynamics and "mix" in real time. Consequently, instead of a compressor blindly squashing every peak, his vocal communicated a great deal of subtlety by emphasizing some syllables over others.

    And of course there was no autotune, either. Just a guy who knew how to hit the notes. Nowadays, the typical pop singer is first and foremost good-looking. Everything else can be fixed in the mix.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    ba_midi
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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/23 23:32:32 (permalink)
    And of course there was no autotune, either. Just a guy who knew how to hit the notes. Nowadays, the typical pop singer is first and foremost good-looking. Everything else can be fixed in the mix.

     
    Not everything.  Good looks alone doesn't make for good singing ;)
     

    Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/24 08:57:40 (permalink)
    what a concept..... write better songs...... don't try to disguise crap with a polished mix....

    have you see the movie  Before The Music Dies  ?.... I spent the time last night to view it....

    it talks about the lack of heart, and creativity in today's music biz..... and how Dylan, Springsteen, U2, Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles, and a whole host of others would not make it in today's looks driven, autotuned vocals world of music.....


    a part that I found interesting was the part where the 45 yr old writer threw a tune and words together, they took a good looking girl who could not sing..... put her in a studio, recorded the band, and then her tracks, auto tuned them, shot a sexy video.... and showed the results compared to the basic guitar vox demo....... waaaa  laaaa... a pop star is born.....  ( this segment is a must see: start at 14 minutes in...keep watching to slightly past 20 minutes.)


    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2010/08/24 09:07:38

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    Beagle
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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/24 10:04:39 (permalink)
    I started watching that last night but only got a few minutes into it before I had to do something else (where's my attention span???).  I will make the effort to try to watch more of it - especially that part you mentioned - it's exactly what I think of today's pop music culture.

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    skullsession
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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/24 10:10:31 (permalink)
    Guitarhacker


    have you see the movie  Before The Music Dies  ?.... I spent the time last night to view it....

    it talks about the lack of heart, and creativity in today's music biz..... and how Dylan, Springsteen, U2, Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles, and a whole host of others would not make it in today's looks driven, autotuned vocals world of music.....
    This is funny.  Because at this year's BET awards....which I only DVR'd and skimmed through....right after several "artists" got done totally butchering Prince's music, Prince got up to accept a Lifetime Achievement award.  Much, much desereved.  Total respect for that dude as an writer, player, artist.
     
    And as he gave his speech....he said, speaking of those who had just performed, and others currently in the R&B business..."The future is in good hands...".
     
    And I was like.....WHAAAAAT???


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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/24 10:43:54 (permalink)
    Interesting article, thanks for posting!


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    ba_midi
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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/24 11:48:34 (permalink)
    Guitarhacker


    what a concept..... write better songs...... don't try to disguise crap with a polished mix....

    have you see the movie  Before The Music Dies  ?.... I spent the time last night to view it....

    it talks about the lack of heart, and creativity in today's music biz..... and how Dylan, Springsteen, U2, Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles, and a whole host of others would not make it in today's looks driven, autotuned vocals world of music.....


    a part that I found interesting was the part where the 45 yr old writer threw a tune and words together, they took a good looking girl who could not sing..... put her in a studio, recorded the band, and then her tracks, auto tuned them, shot a sexy video.... and showed the results compared to the basic guitar vox demo....... waaaa  laaaa... a pop star is born.....  ( this segment is a must see: start at 14 minutes in...keep watching to slightly past 20 minutes.)

    I haven't seen that movie yet, but might just do so tonight.   However, I started in the music biz when I was 9... so I have seen a lot of things come and go, as many of us have.
     
    Is it really that different?  Yes - our own perspectives are, I'm sure; but is the nature of the beast really any different? 
     
    I could easily say that the music biz was that way many years ago.  It was just a different look, a different A&R person, a different distribution method, but at the same time - not much has changed other than "how much stuff" is being poured out.
     
    That does matter, of course.   IOW, if there are 10,000 songs being released every week or month as opposed to 100, that will affect things.   And, there's no doubt the "industry" is a self-destructive one.  That's nothing new ;)
     
    But I submit that many of yesterday's "unknown" artists may have been just as crappy as some of today's known artists.   I happen to like a lot of modern artists (though for some reason on this forum there tends to be less interest in modern music) but that doesn't mean I like them all.
     
    I think everyone can make that statement in one way or another.  Just pick the "time in life" you were most involved and there were probably some contemporary artists you liked and some you didn't.
     
    So in the end, while I agree the music industry as a whole may have shot itself in the foot, the same battles/struggles/wishes/hopes/goods and bads exist -- just with new faces, new technologies, new terminologies perhaps, but in the end, the same challenges of life that always existed, in my humble opinion.
     
     
     

    Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/24 11:50:22 (permalink)
    skullsession


    Guitarhacker


    have you see the movie  Before The Music Dies  ?.... I spent the time last night to view it....

    it talks about the lack of heart, and creativity in today's music biz..... and how Dylan, Springsteen, U2, Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles, and a whole host of others would not make it in today's looks driven, autotuned vocals world of music.....
    This is funny.  Because at this year's BET awards....which I only DVR'd and skimmed through....right after several "artists" got done totally butchering Prince's music, Prince got up to accept a Lifetime Achievement award.  Much, much desereved.  Total respect for that dude as an writer, player, artist.
     
    And as he gave his speech....he said, speaking of those who had just performed, and others currently in the R&B business..."The future is in good hands...".
     
    And I was like.....WHAAAAAT???

    I always loved Prince, and saw him live a few times (amazing performer); but when he first came on to the scene, there were those who thought he was crap too -- and some still do.
     
    That's what makes horseracing, as they say.
     
     

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    guitardog247
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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/24 13:36:27 (permalink)
    Thanks for sharing that Dave King, great stuff in there. Kind of in-line with Daylaa's new thread.

    The song is what's it's all about. Everything else is fancy stuff....

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    Dave King
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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/24 19:07:45 (permalink)
    Nowadays, the typical pop singer is first and foremost good-looking.

     
    Really???  Have you seen Lady Gaga?   

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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/24 21:45:33 (permalink)
    Dave King



    Nowadays, the typical pop singer is first and foremost good-looking.

     
    Really???  Have you seen Lady Gaga?   

    I have - and I think she's a hot lady.... but more importantly, I actually like her music, lyrics, vocals, production.
    I gather you don't ;)
     

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    Dave King
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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/24 22:45:25 (permalink)
    No comment.

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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/25 01:52:48 (permalink)
    Doesn't bring anything new to the table for me but there's good advise in there for anyone starting out.

    I have sat in meeting with record company executive managers, A&R, music publicists and well known producers, two in fact.  I know what goes on behind the scenes such as; the sharing of music ideas, marketing strategies, target audience.

    I have also worked with well known female TV personality who has appeared in popular TV series, did theater, she had the looks and fantastic vocals.

    Some things that will immediately catch record labels attention are; the melodies, the hook, the SONG.  Whereas the beat, chords (accompanied-performances), arrangements and mix can ALL be redone, band members can change!!!

    And then there's the target audience and marketing strategies to consider since that would involve 'COSTS' (advance payments MUST be paid back)...

    There are artists/writers who had hits but are now bankrupt, some live in dinged up trailers others live with their mom, most owed money, one such giant -  'famous singer' owed $60,000 and considered selling his house to get out of dept...

    Nowadays I guess it's the budget that has taken a hit (cut).  I feel for a lot of fellow artists/writers all wanting to get that big-break, most labels are reluctant or will NOT except demos by just anyone.  Best bet is to be referred to by a very well known producer, manager or publicist! Other than that... get out there and perform, get reviews, get a following.

    Unfortunately, I didn't get to continue my work with TV actress-singer because she died (age 21) due to cancer.  (I had met her since she was 19) anyway I was left in shock because I love that girl, a very kindhearted soul, she loved my songs, it was  awesome working together, we got so close to finishing up the recordings to be released by a major label. 

    Anyway, after her death I couldn't continue, the momentum went cold and I went into depression, suffered serious health issues and had to quit.

    Now I'm getting back into the vibe, I'm just warming up, taking one step at a time.

    -

     
     
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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/25 08:44:44 (permalink)
    SongCraft

    Some things that will immediately catch record labels attention are; the melodies, the hook, the SONG. 

      most labels are reluctant or will NOT except demos by just anyone.  Best bet is to be referred to by a very well known producer, manager or publicist!



    That pretty much sums it up. A song that fits the formula, and is recommended by "someone big and with clout" in the biz..... what constitutes "the formula"? A song that sounds close enough to everything else, but just different enough to sound "new" to the listeners....IMHO.

    If you can put these pieces together... fortune awaits you, with a top pop hit.


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    ba_midi
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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/25 13:19:15 (permalink)
    If you can put these pieces together... fortune awaits you, with a top pop hit.

     
    Nothing's quite that simple ;)
     

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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/26 18:46:59 (permalink)
    ba_midi



    If you can put these pieces together... fortune awaits you, with a top pop hit.

     
    Nothing's quite that simple ;)
     


    Ya, you'll still need a boob job.
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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/29 02:09:40 (permalink)
    Dave King


    It's been said before, but there's some good food for thought in this blog post:
     
    http://kimlajoie.wordpress.com/2010/08/23/dont-make-better-mixes-make-better-music/
     
    Great blog ! Thanks for sharing.
    Kev

     
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    batsbrew
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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/31 10:36:49 (permalink)
    i think you need both.

    i've heard some great songs, that were ruined by crappy mixing.


    your job, as a mixer, is to capture the inspiration in the playing AND THE SOUND of what happened, when it happened.

    if it's worthy, it'll shine thru.

    otherwise, all the famous recordings you have loved thru the years, live for nothing.

    somebody recorded them with their 'zoom' whatever, and it sounded like hell.

    the magic, in a LOT of those records, was in part, due to brilliant mixes.
    don't kid yourself.


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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/31 21:59:42 (permalink)
    Thanks for the links people.
    Ended up watching "before the music dies" and then there was a link to the Pixies documentary right there too. 

    Pixies are definitely a band that would find a hard time getting a deal today !!

    That pretty much sums up my Tuesday night.

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    Dave King
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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/08/31 22:07:17 (permalink)
    Thanks for the reminder.  I'm gonna watch it right now.

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/09/01 06:18:20 (permalink)
    I was going to watch it, but it only streams from within the USA.

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    Re:Don't Make Better Mixes... 2010/09/01 14:37:28 (permalink)
    My canadian friends are pissed too...I sent them the link and Hulu does not work in canada either.

    There have been things on the BBC web site I cannot watch in the US too...I guess the lawyers know why...

    JR

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