Dorchester: Some VSTi may force project to read as "changed" as soon as opened.

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stickman393
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2015/05/01 11:08:51 (permalink)

Dorchester: Some VSTi may force project to read as "changed" as soon as opened.

I've just downloaded and installed the Dorchester update. 
 
The first thing I notice is that when I open my project, it is *instantly* marked as "changed" by the asterisk in the file name in the title bar. When I close SONAR, I am prompted to save changes, where no changes have been made by me.
 
I remember this being an issue with VST plugins some versions back, (this one?) but I haven't seen it in SONAR for a while. Certainly not in SONAR 2015 until now.
It's annoying but not the end of the world. 
 
Anyone else noticed this, or is it just me?
 
Update: The culprit was MiniMogueVA. A fix in Dorchester now uncovers deficiencies in this venerable VSTi. 
post edited by stickman393 - 2015/05/02 16:59:08
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    gustabo
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    Re: Return of an old issue in Dorchester: Project marked as "changed" as soon as opened. 2015/05/01 11:35:07 (permalink)
    Not noticing it here.
    Is this happening in all projects or just one?


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    icontakt
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    Re: Return of an old issue in Dorchester: Project marked as "changed" as soon as opened. 2015/05/01 11:49:05 (permalink)
    Not happening here, either.

    Tak T.
     
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    #3
    stickman393
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    Re: Return of an old issue in Dorchester: Project marked as "changed" as soon as opened. 2015/05/01 12:33:19 (permalink)
    Huh, interesting. I'll do more research on this. Thanks.
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    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: Return of an old issue in Dorchester: Project marked as "changed" as soon as opened. 2015/05/01 12:40:41 (permalink)
    Remove the plugin causing it.
    #5
    Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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    Re: Return of an old issue in Dorchester: Project marked as "changed" as soon as opened. 2015/05/01 13:00:58 (permalink)
    stickman393
    Huh, interesting. I'll do more research on this. Thanks.




    If it still happens, I would go and check VST synths first because these have been addressed in Dorchester ... maybe one of them adjusts settings internally upon initialization ...

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    stickman393
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    Re: Return of an old issue in Dorchester: Project marked as "changed" as soon as opened. 2015/05/01 13:50:48 (permalink)
    Oh, I'm sure it's related to this specific bug fix in Dorchester:
    • Making Soft Synth changes now mark projects as edited
    so it will be one of the VSTs: Arturia;s CS80v or GSi's VB3 or Modartt's Pianoteq, or god knows which one. I'll have to experiment.
    #7
    lfm
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    Re: Return of an old issue in Dorchester: Project marked as "changed" as soon as opened. 2015/05/01 13:53:24 (permalink)
    Not happened here either.
     
    Generally a bit the other way - doing changes that make plugin show "*" as parameters are changed, but Sonar not. It happends I close Sonar without this being saved - my own fault mostly, so always save before exiting.
     
    I guess it's a bit tricky since automation also may change parameters - if anything in VST specs that says dirty parameters to host, it's hard to know what.
    post edited by lfm - 2015/05/01 13:59:44

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    Grem
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    Re: Return of an old issue in Dorchester: Project marked as "changed" as soon as opened. 2015/05/01 14:19:11 (permalink)
    Not seeing it here either.

    Grem

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    stickman393
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    Re: Return of an old issue in Dorchester: Project marked as "changed" as soon as opened. 2015/05/02 13:50:31 (permalink)
    I reduced this to a simple project containing an instance of MiniMogueVA:
    • Create new project
    • Insert instance of MiniMogueVA, selecting to create tracks "1st Synth Output" and "MIDI Track".
    • Close the synth UI
    • save the project
    • Wait for a few seconds
    • Observe the "dirty" flag being set as the asterisk appears in the file name in the main window title bar
    I'm pretty sure that MiniMogueVA is no longer being actively developed or maintained, so if this is a bug in the VSTi I don't hold out much hope for a fix.
    And it didn't happen with "Cambridge" and earlier releases.
    I'm going to try reporting this as a bug through normal channels.
     
    Problem Report: CWBRN-32835
    post edited by stickman393 - 2015/05/02 14:05:29
    #10
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re: Return of an old issue in Dorchester: Project marked as "changed" as soon as opened. 2015/05/02 13:57:07 (permalink)
    The bug is most likely in the plugin. If it sends param changes back to the host it will cause SONAR to dirty the document.

    Noel Borthwick
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    stickman393
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    Re: Return of an old issue in Dorchester: Project marked as "changed" as soon as opened. 2015/05/02 14:03:14 (permalink)
    Understood, Noel.
    I felt I should follow the appropriate procedure and log the "bug" anyway, just in case. I understand it will most likely be low-priority. 
     
    I know the VSTi is pretty popular; it's a free but very good sounding Minimoog emulator.
    #12
    JCody
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    Re: Return of an old issue in Dorchester: Project marked as "changed" as soon as opened. 2015/05/02 14:49:05 (permalink)
    I have a problem with the Asterik. If I have any automation in my project, it will "dirty the document" as soon as the automation engages. This causes problems for me with the "playlist" because I do a lot of automation in my tracks. When I have a large Playlist, the songs remain loaded after playing them thus stacking up song after song during a performance in the background "waiting for me to answer whether or not I want to save the changes." This bogs down the computer and time is of the essence in a live situation. I haven't changed the song, the program thinks I have because there's automation in it. I would love to see a fix to this.
    #13
    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: Return of an old issue in Dorchester: Project marked as "changed" as soon as opened. 2015/05/05 12:03:02 (permalink)
    @JCody find out what plugin does it then you can log the issue with them.
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    stickman393
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    Re: Return of an old issue in Dorchester: Project marked as "changed" as soon as opened. 2015/05/06 16:15:26 (permalink)
    Bug resolved as "Third part issue; Will not fix" as expected.
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    stickman393
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    Re: Return of an old issue in Dorchester: Project marked as "changed" as soon as opened. 2015/05/07 12:41:43 (permalink)
    This is the most annoying bug fix, ever.
     
    I know it's not Cakewalk's fault... but is there any chance we can get an .INI setting to restore the old "save VST parameter change" behavior?
    #16
    Doktor Avalanche
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    Re: Return of an old issue in Dorchester: Project marked as "changed" as soon as opened. 2015/05/07 17:09:43 (permalink)
    Have you found out which plugin is causing it?
    I wouldn't regard it as a bug BTW, annoying for sure though.
     
    EDIT - sorry forgot to read again...
     
    "I'm pretty sure that MiniMogueVA" - well there you go.
    Stop using it or demand an update (as you say it may not be supported). Cakewalk really can't be expected to fix or work around other people's code. They have enough of their own problems...
    post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/05/07 17:18:22
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    stickman393
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    Re: Return of an old issue in Dorchester: Project marked as "changed" as soon as opened. 2015/05/08 00:33:39 (permalink)
    >> Cakewalk really can't be expected to [..] work around other people's code
     
    Actually, they've done that quite a bit in the past. Of course I'm not holding my breath they'd do it in this instance.
    #18
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