Doubling Vocals

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pantherhawk27263
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2006/09/19 18:08:21 (permalink)

Doubling Vocals

On several of the projects I'm working on I am doubling lead and harmony vocals. I'm doubling them for two reasons, 1) I love the double tracked vocals The Beatles used, and 2) the usual lack of confidence in my voice that seems rather common among posters here. (Strange, since I was once the lead vocalist in a band. Only vocalist, really, since no one else wanted to even sing harmony. In fact, one of my projects is taking a live recording of this band from the dark ages of 1979 and enhancing the vocals and adding some keyboard parts.)
The problem I run into is that if I have the first track of vocals up at a level that is actually able to be heard by me, I will stray off pitch. If I sing with another voice, I'm fine. It is only when I double my voice, and while using headphones. So far I have had good luck with merely rehearsing to where I sing the parts almost exactly the same every time (ala Freddie Mercury. He was so good at that!), but not hearing my original vocal track while I'm singing always causes uncertainty about the different takes matching, leading to miscues.
I've read a lot about engineers and producers who talk of making headphone mixes for the vocalist that has the voice prominent and centered. That just doesn't work with me.
Does anyone else have this problem, is it just me, or can anyone share their vocal recording techniques?

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    Beagle
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    RE: Doubling Vocals 2006/09/19 18:22:54 (permalink)
    Yes, I have the same issue. I like to have my voice very loud in my headphones if I am tracking while singing a second track of the lead, or if I'm adding harmony (I am currently doing all voice parts on my recordings). I ended up buying an external mixer so that I can send my vocals being recorded into the mixer as well as sending the tracking vocals back from CW into the mixer and I can adjust the mixing levels to what I want to hear.

    Actually, tho, I thought I'd throw in that I have strayed away from singing a second track of the same part, and have started simply cloning the original track and then modifying it to help make the sound "fatter". But I still like having my lead part loud in my ears while I'm singing tenor or bass. (I don't do alto or soprano!!! )

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    #2
    pantherhawk27263
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    RE: Doubling Vocals 2006/09/19 20:33:18 (permalink)
    I have experimented with that some, but haven't been as happy with the results. I'm assuming that I'm not putting enough space between the clone and the original, or modifying it enough to create the result I desire. This is probably due to the fact that I still prefer to do some things as if I were multi-tracking with tape, so I want that same sound that John Lennon used to get from the ADT that George Martin anf Geoff Emerick used. I'll play with cloning and altering some more. Thanks!!
    Any other suggestions, anyone?

    "Information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, wisdom is not truth, truth is not beauty, beauty is not love, love is not music. Music is the BEST!"
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    Beagle
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    RE: Doubling Vocals 2006/09/19 21:34:58 (permalink)
    you're probably not going to be satisfied with cloning tracks if you really want that same multitrack sound. i mainly just nudge it, but then i can use different settings on FX for each track.

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    57Gregy
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    RE: Doubling Vocals 2006/09/19 21:40:01 (permalink)
    I think that the slightly off-note singing is what they were going for, unless it's outrageously sharp or flat. Live double-tracking of anything audio will render a nice 'out-of-phase' effect. And you will even hear the Beatles stray sometimes. Greg

    Greg 
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    57Gregy
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    RE: Doubling Vocals 2006/09/19 21:59:15 (permalink)
    Pantherhawk, coincidentally, I live in NC, moved here from Texas, and a friend/co-worker in Tx was a back-up QB for Iowa in the '80s (Bob Bowman). Greg

    Greg 
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    RobLee
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    RE: Doubling Vocals 2006/09/19 22:04:25 (permalink)
    I've run into this before.

    I know it sounds weird....because it is....... but what I did was to play with the EQ on the original vocal track
    to create the infamous "telephone sound" and panned it hard right in the cans.
    Then I panned the vocal we were tracking hard left. It worked!...

    For some reason the singer was getting lost hearing both of their own vocals coming back at them...so I fed the vocal with the Old Telephone sound back to them for timing and intonation and the brain freeze went away!

    Not a usual practice but sometimes a good trick......weird but something to try...

    Rob

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    pantherhawk27263
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    RE: Doubling Vocals 2006/09/20 12:49:23 (permalink)
    Thanks for the suggestion RobLee. That sounds like it will help. When I try doubling the vocals on my old '79 band tape I have no problem matching them, but they have a different tonal quality from a "new" vocal take because they are on a pretty crappy cassette recording.
    57Gregy, I remember your friend's name from the dark ages of the 80's. I'll bet I even have an old media guide with him in it. I had my son convinced for years that my blood was actually black and gold, because I would say I bleed black and gold for my Hawks. He came home from school one day and said "If you get cut you bleed red, not black and gold." What part of Texas were you in, and what part of NC are you in?
    As for the vocals, mine do go wildly out of tune when I try doubling, not just the desired phasing. They literally go all over the place, intonation wise. It is rather bizarre, because I can hit the right pitch when doing harmony, just not when I'm doubling.
    In honor of this thread, I'm changing my avatar to a pic of me in my old band, so don't let the kids be frightened by it. Just shield their eyes.....

    "Information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, wisdom is not truth, truth is not beauty, beauty is not love, love is not music. Music is the BEST!"
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    57Gregy
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    RE: Doubling Vocals 2006/09/20 23:09:08 (permalink)
    I've never tried double-tracking, so I don't know how my intonation will stand up while trying to sing the same thing. I'll have to give it a try. I have cloned a vocal and instrumental track, though. I didn't go into all the little mods Happy Running Dog Face mentioned above.
    I lived in Plano (the poor part), Dallas and Terrell. Now I live near Clayton. Greg

    Greg 
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    pantherhawk27263
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    RE: Doubling Vocals 2006/09/21 06:47:13 (permalink)
    Wow, my wife lived in Plano! I was in Dallas. We were just back in the Big D area last month. Currently, I'm west of you in the the Triad, the inappropriately named city of High Point.
    I realized another thing that may be an influence on my vocal overall sound is that I haven't paid attention enough to notice that I've been recording my vocal tracks in stereo. As a poster on a Sonar forum said, unless I sing in two voices at the same time, that is a waste. There is a fullness, yet clear seperation in the ADT vocals of The Beatles, and by using stereo I may have actually been "thinning" out the sound. (That may not make sense to anyone else, but it does to me.)
    Thanks for the input!!!!!!

    "Information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, wisdom is not truth, truth is not beauty, beauty is not love, love is not music. Music is the BEST!"
    Frank Zappa - "Packard Goose" from "Joe's Garage"
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    Robomusic
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    RE: Doubling Vocals 2006/09/22 19:25:54 (permalink)
    Recording in stereo is a product of the digital age, not that it could not be done before, but most tracks were mono and the mix was stereo. What i like to do is get a good solid clean vocal track the clone it twice one i run thru the compressor and the other thru either an echo or a delay effect, and just get it off a fraction of a fraction, one has echo, one is compressed and the original has reverb. theni lower the two clones to a low volume and then raise them until they seem to enhance the main track, i spend conciderable time balancing these tracks out.
    post edited by Robomusic - 2006/09/22 19:40:06

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    pantherhawk27263
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    RE: Doubling Vocals 2006/09/22 19:38:45 (permalink)
    I had been thinking of trying something like that, but I just couldn't quite get it straight in my head how I would need to go about it. Great idea, thanks, Robo!
    I was thinking about the fact that I was using stereo on my vocals and realized that in the good old analog days I used to see photos of bands in the studio singing into mike stands with 2 mikes on them. I realized this must have been an early attempt at your procedure, Robo, with one mike being routed through a delay or other effect to alter it and delay it from the other signal.
    Thaks for all the help!! This forum rules!!!

    "Information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, wisdom is not truth, truth is not beauty, beauty is not love, love is not music. Music is the BEST!"
    Frank Zappa - "Packard Goose" from "Joe's Garage"
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