Doubling vocals cheating?

Author
Malakidreams
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 894
  • Joined: 2008/02/21 20:15:13
  • Status: offline
2008/09/08 21:01:51 (permalink)

Doubling vocals cheating?

Im just curious if doubling vocals would be considered cheating. I just think it adds alot in certain songs where a single take sounds plain or boring. Is this practice very common? I think it sounds fuller and adds texture to th voice but it also sounds like you singing it twice and how would you get that effect live?
#1

13 Replies Related Threads

    RobertB
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 11256
    • Joined: 2005/11/19 23:40:50
    • Location: Fort Worth, Texas
    • Status: offline
    RE: Doubling vocals cheating? 2008/09/08 21:11:16 (permalink)
    I don't believe it's cheating at all. I have read where Enya has layered over 100 vocal takes to get that trademark sound.
    I have done the same thing with guitar, but it's tricky, trying to play the same part. It's those subtle variations that add the depth to the sound.
    Live? I don't know, but that would explain 30 backup singers for a solo artist.

    My Soundclick Page
    SONAR Professional, X3eStudio,W7 64bit, AMD Athlon IIx4 2.8Ghz, 4GB RAM, 64bit, AKAI EIE Pro, Nektar Impact LX61,Alesis DM6,Alesis ControlPad,Yamaha MG10/2,Alesis M1Mk2 monitors,Samson Servo300,assorted guitars,Lava Lamp

    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
    #2
    Guitarhacker
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 24398
    • Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
    • Location: NC
    • Status: offline
    RE: Doubling vocals cheating? 2008/09/08 21:33:40 (permalink)
    This is an effect that many try to do...and if it's not done correctly it can really mess up a decent sounding vocal take. Chorusing, slapback echo, recording two or more takes on a vocal track, there are many ways to get this sound.... but the key is to not overdo it.

    if you can pull it off successfully...its not cheating.
    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2008/09/08 21:35:13

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
    Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


    BMI/NSAI

    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
    #3
    rob.pulman
    Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1146
    • Joined: 2008/02/14 02:06:00
    • Status: offline
    RE: Doubling vocals cheating? 2008/09/09 09:20:17 (permalink)
    I don't think doubling anything is cheating. We all know that any studio production is totally different to the real live sound anyway.

    Jimmy Page layered 7 guitar tracks to get the riff sounding right on Black Dog on their 4th album. The song played live is totally thinned out (still one of the best live songs they played though!)

    I'm all for doubling, tripling, whatever it takes lol (I just wish I could use this technique properly myself)


    Stoojo Music

    Dell 2400, XP 1 Gig RAM, Pentium 4 2.8 Ghz, M-Audio 2496, PSR310, LP Custom, Fender Strat, Yam Acoustic, Peavey amps, Zodiac BXP bass
    #4
    Greek2Me
    Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 272
    • Joined: 2004/01/11 23:20:43
    • Location: Ohio
    • Status: offline
    RE: Doubling vocals cheating? 2008/09/09 17:50:59 (permalink)
    I discovered quite by ACCIDENT the bennies of actually singing it twice when I thought I was recording OVER a track, but actually was recording a new one. I liked the sound, and now do it frequently. But it amazes me that it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to actually sing it the same TWICE, there are always slight shifts in the phrasing. But that may not suit some people. "Doubling" tracks certainly adds a "fatness" to the sound without the stress caused by trying to match up performances! No "cheating" involved, just depends on what sound you want.
    #5
    ascottdesign
    Max Output Level: -71 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 957
    • Joined: 2008/07/25 16:23:17
    • Location: The Engish Lake District, Cumbria
    • Status: offline
    RE: Doubling vocals cheating? 2008/09/12 12:02:47 (permalink)
    Was good enough for John Lennon...Good enough for me
    #6
    superc_1
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 49
    • Joined: 2007/08/14 15:45:34
    • Location: Atkins, AR.
    • Status: offline
    RE: Doubling vocals cheating? 2008/09/12 14:23:44 (permalink)
    A friend and I recorded a song and he didn't like listening through the headphone and sing at the same time. I had it playing through monitors while he was singing the main vocal track and the song sounds really fat now. Thats not a good practice but I guess you can call that doubling the the vocals?
    #7
    57Gregy
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14404
    • Joined: 2004/05/31 17:04:17
    • Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
    • Status: offline
    RE: Doubling vocals cheating? 2008/09/12 14:51:31 (permalink)
    Shucks, that's how they overdubbed before multi-tracks; record 1 track, play it back through the speakers while recording that on another tape deck while playing along.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #8
    jamesg1213
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 21760
    • Joined: 2006/04/18 14:42:48
    • Location: SW Scotland
    • Status: offline
    RE: Doubling vocals cheating? 2008/09/12 15:17:00 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Malakidreams

    Im just curious if doubling vocals would be considered cheating. I just think it adds alot in certain songs where a single take sounds plain or boring. Is this practice very common? I think it sounds fuller and adds texture to th voice but it also sounds like you singing it twice and how would you get that effect live?


    Nope not cheating at all, very common practice and sounds great when it's done right.

    We had a happy accident with this song

    Better Days

    Tim sang the whole song an octave too low - luckily I kept the take and it sounded fantastic blended under the higher lead vocal.
    post edited by jamesg1213 - 2008/09/12 15:18:27

     
    Jyemz
     
     
     



    Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
    #9
    Nutty
    Max Output Level: -54.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2056
    • Joined: 2008/04/11 22:15:30
    • Status: offline
    RE: Doubling vocals cheating? 2008/09/12 16:24:15 (permalink)
    That does sound good James. I had the opposite experience. I did the harmony 1 octave lower for one of my songs. I thought it sounded okay. I ran the song by my sister-in-law and she was talking about the man's voice. Let's just say I dropped the lower octave!

    Annette

    Nutty /Annette
    http://www.soundclick.com/atmmusic
    Using: Sonar 8 Studio; Band in a Box; PreSonus Firebox; M-Audio Axiom 25; Mics: Audio Technica ATM610, MXL 990/991; M-Audio Studiophile AV 30 Reference Speakers and many guitars
    #10
    JohnBTV
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10
    • Joined: 2008/08/09 18:58:36
    • Status: offline
    RE: Doubling vocals cheating? 2008/09/12 16:57:38 (permalink)
    James that song does sound good.
    I'd like to add a question to this thread, are there boxes, effects, or plugins that serve as good vocal doublers?
    My mix board has some built in digital combo pitch shift / delay capabilities but so far I am not that impressed with the effect...

    Thanks,

    John

    DellXPS 630, Home built AMD 1.8 Ghz, XPProSP2. Xenyx 1222FX, M-Audio Pro 2496
    #11
    Beagle
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 50621
    • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
    • Location: Fort Worth, TX
    • Status: offline
    RE: Doubling vocals cheating? 2008/09/12 17:03:08 (permalink)
    no, not really that come with MC. you can buy stuff like TC Helicon, Antares or other hardware and software packages which would allow you to create pitch shifted vocals but the pitch shifter included with MC doesn't really do a very good job and those others are quite expensive, so they're supposed to work well.

    you can try a shareware vst called CLONE ENSEMBLE but I've not been super impressed with it myself either:
    http://www.cloneensemble.com/

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #12
    kavonkavon
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 87
    • Joined: 2005/05/01 21:01:16
    • Status: offline
    RE: Doubling vocals cheating? 2008/09/13 10:05:32 (permalink)
    I sometimes copy a vocal track onto another track, add a little reverb and drag it just a little bit behind the main track until I like how it sounds. I don't there is such a thing as cheating if you get the sound you want.

    Thank God for evolution
    Kevin Scott Dunn
    #13
    jamesg1213
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 21760
    • Joined: 2006/04/18 14:42:48
    • Location: SW Scotland
    • Status: offline
    RE: Doubling vocals cheating? 2008/09/13 13:36:39 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: kavonkavon

    I sometimes copy a vocal track onto another track, add a little reverb and drag it just a little bit behind the main track until I like how it sounds. I don't there is such a thing as cheating if you get the sound you want.


    Absolutely - if it sounds good, it is good. Sometimes I clone the lead vocal twice, pan them hard right & left, then pitchshift each one just a little, and as you say, drag 'em back a couple of milliseconds (make each clone different to get the stereo effect), then reverb to taste. With a fairly dry main vocal in the centre this makes for a nice BIG lead vocal!

     
    Jyemz
     
     
     



    Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
    #14
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1