Cormega
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Downward Expander
What does this mean and how do you achieve it? apparently you can increase the apparent dynamic range of your audio? I've never heard of this? Would someone be so kind as to enlighten me?
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John
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/27 20:21:23
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Yes most compressors can expand. Its in the ratio like this 1.1:2 will expand. 2:1 will compress. I wouldn't use the word downward though. It is both. The low parts get lower the high parts get higher. dbX use this principle for a noise reduction unit a long while back You record with high compression and playback with expansion. The overall noise is less because the highly compressed audio is recorded hot.
post edited by John - 2008/08/27 20:33:18
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DonM
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/27 21:07:29
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C: Good for you that John posted first and said it all very concisely. As John said DE is used to reduce noise and hiss. Essentially bringing lower passages down lower. Kepex and Drawmer gates are examples of outboards that do DE  Drawmer Link Here for more info -D
post edited by DonM - 2008/08/27 21:09:12
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Cormega
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/27 21:25:30
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Yeah, I just read the term recently reading about Bias's GateEx plug can do it as well...so it has what effect on audio? Whats an example of a situation you want to use this?
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John
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/27 22:44:13
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Can you say popular CDs LOL. No I thought I gave an example of one way to use it. Its the opposite of compression. Recorded audio is by its nature compressed. No recording has the same dynamics as a live performance. Expansion can put back some of that. Our ears don't clip. But recorded audio can.
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altima_boy_2001
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/28 01:26:21
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Expansion can be both upward or downward. The main idea for using it is to increase the difference between low level and high level signals. Since noise generally dominates in low level signals expansion's main use is in increasing the signal-to-noise ratio. Upward expansion takes signals above a threshold and increases their level by a set ratio. Downward expansion takes signals below a threshold and decreases them by a set ratio. Downward expansion is very similar to a noise gate with an adjustable gain reduction setting except that with a gate the signals below the threshold are reduced by a set amount rather than a ratio.
You can use me as your eSoundz referral (altima_boy_2001).
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John
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/28 03:19:54
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I have never seen one that was a "downward" expander. Just expanders.
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papa2004
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/28 03:31:11
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John
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/28 03:39:59
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It says a gate. LOL Heck I have a gate. But is not an expander. The dbX 266.
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altima_boy_2001
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/28 04:29:43
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RANE makes a gate with gate, duck, and downward expansion modes: http://www.rane.com/g4.html They have a description of the process here: http://www.rane.com/note1555.html Gates and downward expansion are very similar. A normal gate is a downward expander with an infinite reduction ratio (any signal below the threshold turns to silence). Like a compressor with infinite ratio is a limiter.
You can use me as your eSoundz referral (altima_boy_2001).
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John
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/28 05:34:26
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OK OK there is such a thing as a downward expander.
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CJaysMusic
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/28 07:55:07
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Is everyones knowledge Expanded on this subject???
Cj
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b rock
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/28 08:13:49
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Is everyones knowledge Expanded on this subject??? Let's hope that's not in a downward direction. Now, how about negative limiting? Fact or myth? Hint: It can be "Dyna-Mite" effect.
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CJaysMusic
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/28 08:15:43
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Now, how about negative limiting? Wouldnt that be an upward gate?? Cj
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jb
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/28 10:49:37
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I've used this one for years: IQ4gui It's made with synthedit but I've never had any problems with it and it's quite tweakable. Oh, I forgot, it's free.
post edited by jb - 2008/08/28 10:50:33
Celeron 300A o/c 450, SBLive, Win98SE
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cryophonik
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/28 11:12:14
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ORIGINAL: jb
I've used this one for years:
IQ4gui
It's made with synthedit but I've never had any problems with it and it's quite tweakable.
Oh, I forgot, it's free.
Nice find, jb. That VelocityCurveSM looks interesting as well. Thanks for sharing!
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feedback50
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/28 12:50:55
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Even the included Sonitus compressor can do expansion (set ratio to something like 0.5:1). I also do this with the Waves Ren comp. With attack at minimum and playing with threshold and release you can put a nice point on a snare hit, or emphasize the attack on other tracks, etc. You may need to adjust the makeup gain downwardly to keep things from clipping. Works to combat over-compressed tracks to some degree as well. It's useful tool for specific situations.
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DaneStewart
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/28 14:29:04
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VALLEY DYNA-MITE!
b rock,
these are awesome ain't they.
I have never been without a Dyna-Mite and a Gatex. Both of these do downward expansion gating.
And the Dyna-Mite does "Negative Compression" also known as "Ducking".
These gates can actually gate the noise off of a reverb unit without chopping the end of the reverb tail.
The Dyna-Mite is the smoothest gate for a vocal I've ever used. And takes about 5 seconds to set up.
No....I'm not selling either of them.
To thine own self be true. ~TheDane
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CJaysMusic
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/28 15:59:41
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I also do this with the Waves Ren comp . The mono one is my favorite and i use it whenever i ned to insert a compressor on my track. I love it. I also love the waves Ren EQ Cj
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j boy
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/28 18:47:14
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It's very common to use an expander on hi-hats. Acts like a gate but doesn't cut off just emphasizes the transient and main body and minimizes the sustain If you check out the first two songs on my Soundclick page I used the Sonalksis Gate in expander mode for the hi-hat.
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feedback50
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/28 18:52:08
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CJ: Totally agreed on the Ren EQ. Seems to leave a flattering ambience on a lot of tracks.
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Cormega
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RE: Downward Expander
2008/08/28 20:43:49
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ORIGINAL: j boy
It's very common to use an expander on hi-hats. Acts like a gate but doesn't cut off just emphasizes the transient and main body and minimizes the sustain If you check out the first two songs on my Soundclick page I used the Sonalksis Gate in expander mode for the hi-hat.
Hey J.D., Thanks. Thats a great explanation and example. Hey, I like that Shady Grove tune. (check your email)! ~Mega
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Don *
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RE: Downward Expander
2012/12/30 18:07:58
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RE: This is a response to John who mentioned DBX in relation to compressors / decompressors !  I have been looking for a replacement for my DBX 3BX and Pioneer EX-9000 I recently found IQ4GUI. However I'm not a professional and am confused in how to set it up to perform these functions. How to divide the spectrum into 3 different sections of the audio spectrum, eludes me. How would you know the cross over points? How do you determine the upper and lower limits of each section? Is upward expansion the same as DBX's peak recovery ? It appears that these two units did down-ward expansion and upward-expansion at the same time ? This also is quite confusing as it appears there would be a need for upward and downward controls for each of the 3 portions of the audio frequency ranges. Where would I start with my settings? Is there another vst plug-in that is already designed for these functions ? If you can help me, please let me know as I'm not an engineer, just some one who has collected close to 70 years of music and would like to put it on to CD's.
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Cactus Music
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RE: Downward Expander
2012/12/30 22:53:43
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This thread is way to old, most of these members are no longer around. Start a new thread and in the version you are using ( X1 or 8.5 ) Every thing has changed a lot from 2008 so you'll get a better answer by starting a new thread. But my 2 cent's is you are better off using a wave editing program for CD transfers as most action will be way easier for you. Sonar is a multi track recorder and has almost no wave editing features. Use Wave Lab, Audacity or sound forge or ? With wave lab I use a Loudness Maximizer to crank up low level tracks ( after Normalizing) Takes 10 sec. Also these programs will separate tracks automatically allowing you to transfer unattended. Huge time saver.
post edited by Cactus Music - 2012/12/30 22:59:00
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