Drivers MME vs ASIO

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joyof60
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2013/10/08 10:09:54 (permalink)

Drivers MME vs ASIO

A newbe her, all I seem to be able to get to work is MME drivers, is there indeed an advantage to ASIO and any ideas on why when I change to ASIO drivers in the preferences tab on MMC6 everything changes well but I have no input signal/sound. Any help would be most appreciated. (Fantom connected to SBZ card via A?D converter to optical 'in'. everything works ok (except for gross latency problems) with MME drivers but not with ASIO or WDM/KS.

Joyof60
 
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    joyof60
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/10/08 10:13:46 (permalink)
    Sorry , I thought the below information was to post along with my signature, my bad, sorry for the inconvenience.
     
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    Joyof60
     
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    scook
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/10/08 10:38:39 (permalink)
    After setting the driver mode, make sure that the Audio > Devices input and output driver settings in MC6 are correct. All interfaces that have an ASIO driver supply a client to configure the interface. You may need to run that client to diagnose your ASIO issue. For WDM/KS drivers the Wave Profiler needs to be run from Preferences > Audio > Driver Settings.
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    57Gregy
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/10/08 10:40:01 (permalink)
    Welcome to the forum.
    There may not be an ASIO driver available for the SB. You can try the SB web site help to see if you can download an ASIO driver for it and your OS.
    If not, you can try ASIO4All, a free driver which makes the WDM driver act like an ASIO driver and has helped many folks overcome the latency inherent in (most) sound cards that aren't designed for recording.
    Or, ditch the SB and get an audio interface designed for recording which has ASIO drivers for your OS.

    Greg 
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/10/08 10:48:29 (permalink)
    Most of the factory cards seem to work better with MME. However, they also tend to have heavy latency that prevents one from working in an efficient manner.
     
    Soundblaster is not the best sound card to use with Cakewalk recording software. Most often, people will purchase a third party USB audio/midi interface which does support ASIO drivers. Once this type of interface/soundcard is set up, the process becomes transparent and latency is no longer an issue.
     
    Look into Focusrite, M-Audio, Presonus, Roland as choices for the sound card/interface.

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    joyof60
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/10/11 03:37:12 (permalink)
    Thanks so much for the insight! Looking at a Cakewalk FA 66
    I read about some comparability issues with win7 64bit, anybody know if those have been resolved?

    Joyof60
     
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/10/11 07:26:20 (permalink)
    The FA-66 is a firewire based interface. My Saffire by Focusrite is a firewire interface.  One of the issues that FW interfaces have has is compatibility issues revolving around the chip set that is in the computer which manages that FW port.
     
    If the chip set is a TI chip set there will likely be no problem. Anything other than Texas Instruments chips could (not will, but could) be problematic.
     
    I have a Dell lappy that works fine with it, and a custom built DAW that also works fine. I can not say that the chips are TI in either and when buying the parts for the DAW no one.... not even the MOBO manufacture's tech support could tell me.
     
    USB based interfaces do not have this issue. Most stores will take the interface back if you do encounter this problem..... so get it and start using ASIO drivers.

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    joyof60
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/10/11 11:43:21 (permalink)
    Thanks Hack, the FA 66 is used and the price is nice ( a swap for some easy dubbing work) the money spent will have to be on a 1394 card as my mobo has no firewire port. I really appreciate the insight and heads up! Thanks a bunch!

    Joyof60
     
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/10/14 18:55:24 (permalink)
    Let us know how that 1394 card works out.

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    joyof60
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/11/02 18:51:11 (permalink)
    Ok, Finally got some time to try and put this together. I got the add on card with the TI chips as Hack suggested and the Fa66 is recognized seems to work ok, as far as recording one channel at a time. The latency problems have disssapeared and my 'dubbing' work has gone rather smoothly. A coupla  questions if I may,
    1) Having read that Firewire is able to send multiple channels at a time to the DAW, I can't seem to make that happen with my FA66. Is this indeed a limitation of the hardware or is it just a learning curve?
    2) In doing some dubbing work I would like to be able to 'fade out' individual tracks before bouncing/blending/mixing or whatever the correct term is for finishing the project and exporting the file. ( All I know to do is to 'bounce' the project and export that particular track), I find this difficult to do. I find information about fading 'in' but not about fading 'out', I have tried the 'in' process in reverse to fade out but that doesn't seem to work. This is a simple task in other software programs and I must be missing something here because it shouldn't be that big of a deal. Can anybody help here?
     
    and Hacker, I still replay your "Power in the Blood" often just for that slammin Sax!

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    RobertB
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/11/02 21:37:05 (permalink)
    Good to see you are making headway.
    Re #1, MC has always been limited to two inputs(one stereo pair), and I believe that has carried into MC6.
    However, it should see both mic/instruments or Line Inputs 3/4.
    Check Edit>Preferences>Audio Devices.
    You will probably see one pair of inputs highlighted and one pair greyed out.
    This is MC limiting you. It is not an issue in the other Cakewalk versions.
    ASIO is kind of funny, and instead of seeing Input 1/Input 2, you will probably see Input 1L and Input 1R. Note the L and R markings on the face of the FA66.
    The Line inputs(3 & 4) will probably show as Input3L and Input3R This is normal behavior.
    So, to record both mic inputs, you would set up something like this:
    Audio track 1
    Input-ASIO In 1L
    Output-Master
     
    Audio Track 2
    Input-ASIO In 1R
    Output-Master
     
    If your latency is good enough, and you want to hear effects such as amp sims as you record, turn on Input Echo.
    Arm and Record.
     
    Re #2, Fade in/out is the same. Be sure you have the smart tool selected. Hover your cursor over the top right corner of the clip, and you should see the fade triangle. If the clip is too small, you may want to zoom in so you can position the cursor.
    hth

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    joyof60
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/11/02 22:05:19 (permalink)
    Yessir, the wonderful thing about being old and learning new technology is you have fewer years of frustration ahead. With renewed patience I got the fade out function. Thanks!
    I also have a SeaSound Solo EX that uses a COM port, if I can figure out how to make it work that should at least let me record two separate tracks at the same time would it not?

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    57Gregy
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/11/02 23:49:30 (permalink)
    You may be recording stereo tracks, using both inputs on 1 track. Select left input in 1 track and right input in another track and you should be able to record 2 tracks simultaneously.

    Greg 
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    RobertB
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/11/03 01:00:59 (permalink)
    joyof60
    I also have a SeaSound Solo EX that uses a COM port, if I can figure out how to make it work that should at least let me record two separate tracks at the same time would it not?



    It looks like you might have the breakout box for that. It requires a companion PCI card(similar to the EMU0404 that you were using before). Among other things, it is very old, and even if you had all the parts, it probably wouldn't work with a new computer.
    The FA66 is capable of providing multiple inputs.
    You just need to set up your inputs as Greg and I have described.
    Check out this thread:
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/Volume-Signal-PathPart-1Recording-m1519608.aspx
    Your tracks should look pretty much like tracks 4 and 5 toward the bottom of the first post.
    This was done with an older version (Sonar Home Studio 6). The graphics are a little different, but the principle is the same. Ideally, you want two mono tracks.
    You'll get it. These initial hurdles are the worst part.

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    joyof60
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/11/03 06:14:31 (permalink)
    Thanks do much guys, I have been seeing what you are describing with much confusion for a while, and now it kinda makes sense. I am connecting my piano/keyboard into the digital 'toslink' input on the FA66, so when I select my record ASIO option I select the SPDIF stereo option. Is that what negates me from being able to assign a different input to another track?
    Ideally I will need to mic two guitars independently with two vocals as well as run the piano stereo. The FA66 touted itself as having 6 outs/ and 6 ins. I think from what I have been seeing is a boast of all available I/O options, line/digital/stereo etc. as if one could use them all concurrently. I've learned to look at the pictures of the products carefully.
    Question here is, am I limited by the MC6 software therefore would benefit from changing to a higher end/different product? If so, could someone suggest which one? (There are sooooo many!) and would I indeed benefit from a hardware mixer to do what I need? I was trying to go "mixer less" with the FA66, but it appears that it has some limitations.
    2) just a thought, do I have to use the AISO drivers? Would a configuration of the others be better suited?
    Thanks again guys for the responses and patience with an old man that let technology pass him by! You all are so kind!
    Robert, I will try the link and maybe improve my learning curve. I know the SeaSound was dated (one of the reasons I liked it : / ) but was not aware I needed a special card, I had tried to adapt it to USB (from the COM port) and the found a COM port on the Motherboard that just needed an adapter cable to bring it to the I/O panel. I hate to resign it to propping the door open (it's so pretty) but alas, live and learn. One more time, thank you all so much!!

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/11/03 07:50:32 (permalink)
    1.  yes, you are limited to 2 inputs at a time with the MC line. If you need more you need to cross grade to the X3 series and even the lowest one will give you more inputs at the same time depending of course on the interface you choose
     
    2.  If the interface is designed to use ASIO drivers, you should make every effort to set them up and adjust the settings if, and as needed to use the ASIO drivers as the company designed it to function.  In my case, I simply installed the ASIO drivers from disk and they ran smooth as glass. You can also check the interface company's website for the most recent and updated drivers.... some folks do need to update the drivers..... it varies depending on your system.
     
    You are not prevented from using MME drivers with most decent interfaces but you generally end up with the same performance issues you had with the factory card since MME is not designed to work with them efficiently.

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    joyof60
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/11/04 01:59:32 (permalink)
    Thanks again guys! Herb, those (software X3s) that allow greater than two inputs, will they return the same number?
    And the AISO drivers for the FA66 work fine I guess, I was just reading somewhere that (and I know I don't have the names right) the WPA or something is more useful in sending multiple seperate tracks. And really don't fully understand half of what I read. You guys here have given me more useable information than I have read anywhere. Y'all are indeed a great service!

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    scook
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/11/04 08:33:49 (permalink)
    The SONAR X3 series does not impose limits on track count.  WRT to driver mode, usually it is a good idea to test an interface by running all the drivers supplied by the manufacturer as some interfaces work better with one or the other. This is because the actual drivers vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.
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    57Gregy
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/11/04 09:24:27 (permalink)
    My Focusrite Saffire only has 2 inputs, but up to 10 outputs (or 5 stereo pairs), and my SONAR Home Studio 6 can utilize those outputs. Probably SONAR X can, too. If the interface has multiple outputs, you should be able to use them with the X series. Most only have 2 outputs, so check the specs before you buy.
    In the case of the Saffire, that's so you can use it to drive a surround sound speaker system if you want.
    I think.

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/11/04 09:35:26 (permalink)
    With X3, the limit on the number of tracks is more a function of the computer and the interface. The number of inputs and outputs on the interface will all be recognized with X3.
     
    Currently, with MC, you get 2 inputs. They can be 1 stereo or 2 mono inputs. Normally, the way I work, it's one mono track at a time.

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    joyof60
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/11/05 01:49:18 (permalink)
    Thanks again guys!
    Please be patient, and this may indeed be a stupid question (yes there are such things, but usually they are the easiest to answer), I'm becoming a bit confused, the FA66 has four line outs, a SPDIF out, MIDI in/out..but do they all not communicate through the firewire connection? Should not the software recognize all the outs or at least those that have an 'in" connection to an instrument/mic/synth whatever, or have I lost the whole concept?....wait..I think I see what you are saying, software like X3 will recognize all the outputs, so to do what I want, I have to upgrade my software. (sorry, sometimes I have to read it through a few times) So here surfaces another dilemma, and I bet this is a hot one,...which software is best?  ...(did I ask that out loud??)
     

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/11/05 08:51:30 (permalink)
    yes, all the inputs and outputs (audio & midi) communicate through the firewire port.
     
    And you are correct. If your SOFTWARE DAW has the ability, it will see all the inputs on the interface. MC only sees 2 of them at a time. They are all available in MC but MC limits you to 2 at a time. X3 will allow them all at the same time.
     
    The way they claim the inputs and outputs is a bit deceptive.
     
    Yes you have the inputs they claim, but not all in a row....you have 2 on the front XLR or 1/4", you have 2 RCA on the back and apparently 2 more using the digital input from something that gives you a digital output. So you have the 6 inputs but they are in 3 different formats.  You have 4 outputs on the back and the headphone out which they include in their output count as 2 more outputs. (stereo)
     
    Variety of I/O Options
    Record from a variety of sources through the plethora of input and output connectors on the FA-66: 2 XLR/TRS combo inputs with phantom power, Hi-Z (Guitar) switch on input 2, stereo RCA inputs, S/PDIF optical I/O, four individual analog outputs, 1/4" stereo headphone out, and MIDI I/O.
     
     
    My saffire is similar. With only 2 inputs and I do believe there is a digital input as well.... which I never used. And with 8 outputs on the back not counting the 2 headphone jacks on the front..... the outputs default as pairs... so I have 4 pairs on the back. One to my studio monitors, one to the headphone amp, another to the stereo system, and I use one of the last pair for the sub. The interface I have is actually designed to allow surround sound mixing for video game music and such things as film scoring. By sending tracks to the outputs directly, this can be accomplished, however, for me, stereo works just fine....

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    RobertB
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/11/05 12:26:43 (permalink)
    As for which software is best, yeah, that's a pretty wide open question.
    I am admittedly biased toward Cakewalk. You can't beat the support here in the forums, and on the rare occasions I have needed it, Customer Support has always been good.
    As a registered customer, you can upgrade to the base X3 for $49. It's a pretty potent package, and would satisfy your basic requirements.
    Or, you can upgrade to X3 Studio for $149. For me, Studio is an outstanding value, and offers everything I really need.
    While the Producer version is certainly "the best", I have a hard time recommending it to a new user, as the dizzying array of options can be a bit much to grasp. And it is significantly more expensive.
    Your needs will dictate which is best for you.
    This comparison chart may be helpful:
    http://cakewalk.com/products/sonar/versions.aspx

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    joyof60
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    Re: Drivers MME vs ASIO 2013/11/08 18:41:09 (permalink)
    Thanks again so much! Thanks for not sending me to the couch Herb, I was hoping to be able to use all the inputs supplied and was waning in my inability to do so. You gave me courage! I installed SonarLE which was a free load over my MC, and was terrified at the screen display, not only was I grossly confused but my poor old eyes couldn't see the tiny icons packed in everywhere. It did although recognize all of the FA66's inputs. I slowly and fearfully purchased the upgrade to Sonar X3, held my breath and Voila!, almost the same functions and setup as MC6! so pleasantly surprised. And it accommodates all of my connected inputs, and even those that are not connected, which is equally cool as the software shows me additional inputs I can use that I was unaware of as well as a plethora of outputs. Not sure what the limit is, but soon I will push the envelope and see. This is exactly what I was hoping it would be from the beginning and was so very disappointed in MC6 with the limitations. I'm sure X3 has more features than I will ever use, and as a noob, I am quite content with all I have to learn here. Robert you are quite correct, I subscribe to a few forums, some are very good, some not so, but Cakewalk has been more than patient and helpful to me, and many others as I have read. Technical support is ok, but I have gotten much more help here than I did with contacting Tech support. Every thing is up and running smooth as glass. thanks so much fellas! I got a lot to learn now, then I'll try my hand at understanding that whole MIDI thing. I would really like to understand MIDI and how to use 'soft synths', but that is for another day! You guys Rock!!
    PS, Herb, I'm still lovin that sax!!

    Joyof60
     
    Sonar Plat., Windows 10 Pro  (64bit), Custom Build,  AMD Rizen 5 @3.95GHz, Assorted HDDs, 32 Gb G.Skill RAM. Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Roland FA08, coupla guitars and misc. mics, cans,  and gadgetry.
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