Helpful ReplyDrop outs

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jadonx
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 11:35:33 (permalink)
I was getting drop outs with Latencymon test on a similar laptop and since upgrading to the windows 10 anniversary edition it says system now OK for audio. I didn't stop any processes in either scene. I am looking into a start up profile though which will disable hogging processes anyway.
#31
pinguinotuerto
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 11:42:08 (permalink)
abacab
Your problems began when you both switched to Platinum.
 
Your Intel Core i7 can turbo up to 2.8GHz, with a max memory bandwidth of 21GB/s.
http://ark.intel.com/products/43122/Intel-Core-i7-720QM-Processor-6M-Cache-1_60-GHz
 
Assuming that your hard drive is not the bottleneck, and the latency monitor shows green, you should be good to go.  Problem is that you are not good with Platinum.
 
But I'm also starting to think that maybe something changed with how you use the audio drivers in Platinum.  Are you using ASIO with the same settings as X3?




All my settings are exactly the same.  If you don't mind, let's continue this conversation on my own thread. I don't want to divert attention from the OP.
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Same-file-plays-fine-in-X3e-but-in-Platinum-I-get-dropouts-and-glitches-Windows-7-64-m3464600.aspx
And thanks for your help!
 
 

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#32
pmarangoni
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 11:52:02 (permalink)
abacab
 
But I'm also starting to think that maybe something changed with how you use the audio drivers in Platinum.  Are you using ASIO with the same settings as X3?
 




Yes, the same settings.

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#33
abacab
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 12:01:42 (permalink)
pmarangoni
abacab
 
But I'm also starting to think that maybe something changed with how you use the audio drivers in Platinum.  Are you using ASIO with the same settings as X3?
 




Yes, the same settings.




OK.  In an attempt to stop hijacking your thread, I went over to the similar thread started by pinguinotuerto. http://forum.cakewalk.com/Same-file-plays-fine-in-X3e-but-in-Platinum-I-get-dropouts-and-glitches-Windows-7-64-m3464600.aspx
 
I took a look at screen caps he did for his meters on Platinum vs. X3e.
 
He seems to be showing CPU Core #1 pegging into the red at times with Platinum, but not X3.
 
If this is a project you started in X3 and brought into Platinum, could it be a plugin from your old project that is causing this?

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#34
pmarangoni
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 12:46:54 (permalink)
abacab
 
If this is a project you started in X3 and brought into Platinum, could it be a plugin from your old project that is causing this?




 
It could be any one of a number of things.  That's why I'm not going to bother recording with the laptop anymore.  I don't have the time that is obviously required to troubleshoot this problem.  Cakewalk should just state that you need a more powerful system for GUARANTEED stability. 
 
The first time I tried recording on my laptop last year, it wouldn't work at ALL.  I went on to find out that you require two hard drives to record at a decent sample rate (I didn't see that requirement mentioned anywhere).  I then managed to get it working with an external solid state drive connected with USB 3.0.  Even then, after multiple takes (approximately 12) of recording 8 tracks of drums, the project would drop out and stop recording.
 
I don't have the luxury of leaving all my gear setup and ready to go.  I have to lug everything to a rehearsal studio (where I pay by the hour), set everything up, and start recording.  Then when I get back home, I transfer the project from the SSD drive to my home desktop system where I mix and master etc.
 
I don't want to be screwing around with all sorts of settings.  I want to focus on the music..

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#35
pinguinotuerto
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 12:51:47 (permalink)
pmarangoni
It could be any one of a number of things.  That's why I'm not going to bother recording with the laptop anymore.  I don't have the time that is obviously required to troubleshoot this problem...
I don't want to be screwing around with all sorts of settings.  I want to focus on the music..




Ok then, problem solved.

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#36
pmarangoni
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 12:56:37 (permalink)
I appreciate everyone trying to help, but I was hoping for a definitive solution, not shots in the dark.

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#37
pinguinotuerto
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 13:01:50 (permalink)
pmarangoni
I appreciate everyone trying to help, but I was hoping for a definitive solution, not shots in the dark.


No problem. Unfortunately, sometimes it's not that simple.  I'll keep trying to solve my issue. If I find a solution, I'll pass it along just in case it's the same issue. I understand your frustration. Technology can sometimes get in the way of creativity.

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#38
abacab
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 13:10:28 (permalink)
pinguinotuerto
 
Technology can sometimes get in the way of creativity.




 
+100

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#39
pmarangoni
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 13:16:26 (permalink)
Okay, I'm going to try it one last time with the laptop.  This time, it will be a new project/tune but I'll record at 44.1 k and 16 bit (instead of my usual 48k/24bit).  I'll also make sure the wifi is off, and I've increased the playback/record buffers to 512.  I won't add console emulation to any tracks until well after I record all the drums.
 
I'll report back with my results in a few days.

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#40
pinguinotuerto
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 13:19:41 (permalink)
pmarangoni
Okay, I'm going to try it one last time with the laptop.  This time, it will be a new project/tune but I'll record at 44.1 k and 16 bit (instead of my usual 48k/24bit).  I'll also make sure the wifi is off, and I've increased the playback/record buffers to 512.  I won't add console emulation to any tracks until well after I record all the drums.
 
I'll report back with my results in a few days.


Instead of lowering the sampling and bit rates, just don't use 32 bit plugins for now. I have a feeling that's where our problem lies. Something between BitBridge and some older plugins. Just a guess.

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#41
abacab
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 13:20:16 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2016/08/15 13:44:47
pmarangoni
I appreciate everyone trying to help, but I was hoping for a definitive solution, not shots in the dark.




I can appreciate your frustration.  But based on my 40 years of working with computers, troubleshooting them is not always simple.
 
There are really two approaches: 1. (additive) start from scratch and add one thing at a time until it breaks, or 2. (subtractive) start with the broken thing and remove one thing at a time until it works again.  The last thing you touched is likely the problem.
 
Obviously, based on the nature of the problem, this can be a huge productivity killer.
 
Regarding use of a laptop for DAW usage, my only advice at this point if you wish to avoid tuning or tweaking, is to buy the highest spec laptop you can get your hands on (search for or ask in the forums for what works for others). Then have the hard drive wiped (due to OEM bloatware) and get a clean install of Windows. Install Sonar.
post edited by abacab - 2016/08/15 13:43:51

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#42
pmarangoni
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 13:24:36 (permalink)
pinguinotuerto

Instead of lowering the sampling and bit rates, just don't use 32 bit plugins for now. I have a feeling that's where our problem lies. Something between BitBridge and some older plugins. Just a guess.




But don't you think the lower fidelity will be less taxing on my laptop/external drive?

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#43
pinguinotuerto
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 13:26:12 (permalink)
Also, in Device Manager (assuming it's called the same in Win 10), make sure that all other audio devices that are not your Roland interface are disabled, including those affiliated with your graphics card. My laptop for example not only has an onboard sound card, but also like 4 other audio "devices" associated with my Nvidia video card.

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#44
pmarangoni
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 13:27:59 (permalink)

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#45
pinguinotuerto
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 13:32:22 (permalink)
pmarangoni
Thanks, will do.  I did this too: http://www.uaudio.com/blog/optimizing-windows-computer-for-audio/


I've asked you a couple of times and you haven't answered. If Platinum is not working and everything worked in X3, why not use X3 in the meantime (instead of the Boss hard disk recorder)? I thought your issue was similar to mine, that things worked in X3, but not in Platinum?

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#46
pmarangoni
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 13:56:09 (permalink)
Honestly, I didn't even realize that X3 would work once I had opened the project in Platinum.  But switching back to X3 would mean removing all the plugins that only became available with Platinum (like the console emulator, Breverb, etc).  But, I did have problems even with X3 after recording multiple takes of drums.  I think the lower bit rate will help.

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#47
pinguinotuerto
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 14:17:53 (permalink)
pmarangoni
Honestly, I didn't even realize that X3 would work once I had opened the project in Platinum.  But switching back to X3 would mean removing all the plugins that only became available with Platinum (like the console emulator, Breverb, etc).  But, I did have problems even with X3 after recording multiple takes of drums.  I think the lower bit rate will help.


Then our issues are different. I upgraded from Sonar X3e Producer and already had access to those plugins, plus things work fine in X3 for me.

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#48
pmarangoni
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 14:20:57 (permalink)
I upgraded from Studio.

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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 14:48:42 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pmarangoni 2016/08/15 23:29:42
pmarangoni
Okay, I'm going to try it one last time with the laptop.  This time, it will be a new project/tune but I'll record at 44.1 k and 16 bit (instead of my usual 48k/24bit).  I'll also make sure the wifi is off, and I've increased the playback/record buffers to 512.  I won't add console emulation to any tracks until well after I record all the drums.
 
I'll report back with my results in a few days.


I would not reduce the bit depth for recording. I doubt the sample rate reduction will make that much difference. Recording without plug-in, turning off wi-fi and any unnecessary background processes, setting a reasonable ASIO buffer (avoiding extremely high and low settings) and tuning the file system I/O parameters in Preferences > Audio > Sync and Caching are the most effective things. Unfortunately, there is no strict formula because every system is different.
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davec69
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 15:41:12 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pmarangoni 2016/08/15 16:28:01
As a fellow Roland Quad Capture user, I can tell you that at least part of the problem lies with the interface or the drivers, themselves.  Check the forum, and you'll find countless posts referencing Roland interfaces.
 
With that said, most of the times when I have trouble with dropouts, ect, it usually has to do with changes recently made by the operating system, either through updates, or other system changes.  Here are a few things that I check first, when random dropouts start happening.
 
1.  Power Options - I've gone through and created a customized power profile for my system which gives me the best settings for music production.  Frequently I find that the operating system has, for some reason, switched back to Windows 10's, generic "Balanced" power profile, which is not optimal for music production.   In Windows 10, click the Start Button, go to "Settings" then "System", then "Power&Sleep".  On that screen you can select a power profile for your system, or go to advanced settings and create a custom profile.
 
2.  USB Power Management - Windows loves to turn things on and off, to conserve power, this can affect performance.  To avoid this, I make sure to disable "Power Management" on all my USB devices.  This especially drives me crazy with my USB Midi Controller.  When the system puts it to sleep, I get the dreaded Midi Device Disconnected message in Sonar.  To avoid this, got to Device Manager, and find "Universal Serial Bus Controller" in the list.  Double click to open it and then double click each device inside, one at a time.  Any that have a "Power Management" tab, go to the tab and make sure to remove the check mark from "Allow The Computer To Turn Off This Device".  No more losing USB devices while working.
 
3.  This one really drives me crazy.  My laptop, as most, has an on board audio card.  Using this at the same time as an external audio card, can cause problems.  To avoid this, I go into Device Manager, under "Sound Video And Game Controllers, and disable anything related to the on board audio.  Also in device manager, go to "System Devices" and Disable anything related to your laptops on board audio.   The problem comes when windows does and update.  Often, it will turn all of this junk on again, so I check it often.  At least after every windows update.
 
I'm sure I'll think of something else, but these are the main things that I check antime dropouts start happening.

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#51
pmarangoni
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 16:08:35 (permalink)
Thanks!

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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 21:06:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pmarangoni 2016/08/15 23:29:31
If all your doing with this laptop is recording a live band,?
I use an old Sony laptop that came with Vista, I upgraded to W7 64 bit, put in a 256 SSD and it has the max 4 Gigs RAM. So this is no killer machine by any stretch. But It has been optimized for recording and has a wonderfull little WiFI switch.  
I recorded 14 tracks + midi all night long and each is a whole set worth so about 50 minutes x 4 sets.  None stop. I've been doing this since last fall. I started out with X3 on the laptop but upgraded through Pro to Plat. I too then transfer the CWP to my main DAw to work over.
 
Laptops are hit or miss I've been told. My son had a Dell that behaved like yours and there was nothing he could do. It was a $1,500 model he bought just to record. He's very tech savy. In the end it was something in the BIOS that could not be disabled that kept interupting. LAt Monitor did not show this,, he figured it out some other way. So He bought a $500 Acer that worked perfectly fine and carried on.  
My WIfes Lenovoworked excellent right out of the box and with no tweeking at all ( was not allowed too) but many others have had bad luck with almost the same laptop..

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#53
pmarangoni
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 21:45:11 (permalink)
Yeah, I have a feeling that this Toshiba is a P.O.S.  I'm planning to get a new one, but not for a while.

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robert_e_bone
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 23:08:32 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pmarangoni 2016/08/15 23:29:23
Quick question to the OP - if you toggle on the Bypass All Effects (hit the letter 'E' on your computer keyboard to do so), do your dropouts go away?  (you can hit 'E' again to toggle the effects processing back on, afterwards, by the way).
 
IF your dropouts go away with all effects bypassed, then it indicates that one or more of the project's loaded plugins are causing your dropouts.  This is often due to things that use Linear Phase processing, or Look-Ahead processing, or are just CPU-consuming.  I noticed you mentioned Breverb - and I believe this is one of the frequent culprits for folks that add it to their projects while still recording, when it is better suited to use during the mixing phase.  Perfect Space and the LP-64 plugins are other frequent culprits.
 
Anyways - it is SUPER quick to try temporarily bypassing the effects and seeing if that helps or not.  If it does nothing to help, then the loaded plugins are not the cause.  If on the other hand, it DOES make a difference, then you need to go back and figure out which plugin(s) are contributing to your dropouts.
 
Additionally, as noted by others above, WiFi adapters, and sometimes battery management drivers can really spike DPC Latency, and cause streaming audio problems.  Many folks indeed turn off or disable both just prior to launching a Sonar session, and then turn them back on after finishing the Sonar session.
 
These issues you are reporting are NOT happening to the vast majority of users, or you would see clear evidence of that by all kinds of complaint threads.  That this is NOT the case indicates that indeed these issues are likely system-specific, and therefore likely solvable, IF one willingly engages in the process of causative analysis to figure out what alterations need to be made.
 
Bob Bone

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#55
pmarangoni
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/15 23:12:40 (permalink)
Thanks Bob, that is good info.  I didn't know you could toggle the effects like that.  There are so many things I don't know when it comes to Sonar it's pretty sad.

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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/16 07:43:14 (permalink)
Just reading through this, a bell rang in my head, and I went back to your first post. Toshiba external drive.
 
When I upgraded to X3 a few years back now, I bought a new laptop and external drive, only to find out that the Toshiba drive I bought was useless for recording, because like a laptop, it has mega power saving attributes. In other words, it shuts down. I put it to good use plugging it into the tv for recording shows, and bought a powered Seagate drive which fixed weeks of frustration after making every conceivable change to my laptop and interface settings.
 
Bob will get you going if stick with him, but keep this one in mind too.

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#57
dcumpian
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/16 08:22:19 (permalink)
Besides trying to record with live plugins, one other thing that may be causing dropouts on Plat but not X3 is running Platinum using the same exact settings as X3. I have found it is better to let Sonar create a new AUD.INI for each new version.
 
Regards,
Dan

Mixing is all about control.
 
My music:
http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
#58
pmarangoni
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 72
  • Joined: 2015/03/20 00:51:37
  • Location: Los Angeles, California
  • Status: offline
Re: Drop outs 2016/08/20 11:49:12 (permalink)
My problem has been resolved.  Main things I did was to disable the wireless adapter and disable the Windows sounds.  I also refrained from using any plugins at all.  I successfully recorded 21 takes of 8 tracks of drums yesterday.  I got the dropout once, which stopped the program.  I looked at the settings and the playback/record buffer was at 256.  I thought I had already set it to 512, but maybe when I started this new project it defaulted to 256.  Whatever;  I set it to 512 and it never happened again.
 
Thanks again everyone for all your help and suggestions.  You've gone above and beyond.
 



-------------------------------------------------
Sonar Platinum on Windows 10 Professional
Roland Studio Capture
#59
robert_e_bone
Moderator
  • Total Posts : 8968
  • Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
  • Location: Palatine, IL
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Re: Drop outs 2016/08/20 18:18:00 (permalink)
For whatever the worth, I record with an ASIO Buffer Size of 128, to keep latency down.  I mix with it set to either 1024 or 2048 - to be able to load up the plugins during mixing.
 
Bob Bone
 

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
#60
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