Drum Limiter Recommendations?

Hi Guys,
 
I'm struggling a bit with drum mixes and have discovered one of the largest colorations in my approach seems to come from limiters.  While I try to keep things balanced during mix it is inevitable that I often end up with at least slight transients on kick and snare that need to be tamed down a touch.  So I'll often put a limiter on the master drum buss.  And then of course there is also a final limiter on the Mastering buss when the time comes.
 
I've found Voxengo Elephant and Timeworks Mastering Comp/Limiter to be Ok. But they still color the drums in a way that I'm not fully happy with.  Are there any limiters out there you might recommend trying that seem to yield a good result when used on a drum bus?   (Keep in mind I'm using WinXP).   I'm looking for something that is either A) transparent or B) coloring in a helpful way.
 
Thanks,
 
Sonic

PSP Xenon still claims 32-bit XP with Service Pack 2 support. It's long in the tooth, but remains an excellent, transparent master buss limiter that should work quite well on a drum buss.
 
The problem is, it's back at its list of $249. I got lucky and picked it up last January from Audio Deluxe for less than $26. It/When it goes back on sale, I'd jump all over it.
 
http://www.pspaudioware.com/plugins/dynamic_processors/psp_xenon/
 

I know you're after limiter advice, but to me it seems your drum mix technique needs work, which would help with yoir problem. Think of mixing like making a cake or even a painting...both are made of layers. If you put too much icing on the cake, which is just one layer...the cake tastes out of balance? Well it's the same with mixing. To me trying to fix the drum mix by using a limiter - unless that's the aesthetic you're after - is like the cake analogy.

If you want try this, use the tape sim in the Prochannel to squash the transients. Don't be frightened to push the VU meter into the red, but keep the average to -6ish. I use a tasty EQ...I tend to use Wave's and depending on the flavour I'm after (the cake analogy:)), but depending on the flavour for example if I'm after a metallic sound, I'd use the TG12345 or of I want the sound to be slighty warm but not too warm I'd go for the Neve EQ from Wave's. Now whilst the Quad EQ in the Prochannel won't add any flavor - it does have matching EQ curves to the SSL off the top of my head and would suffice. Use your ear to see whether you want the EQ before or after the tape sim. I tend to use two snares and kicks these days too. You would then either feed these instruments into either a snare and kick aux, a drum aux or buss. Then you add further processing onto those tracks, for example I use Wave's J37 or the tape machine made famous by The Beatles to level the drums, followed by further EQ and sometimes the EQ before the tape sim. Finally I will use a tasty compressor. I also use console emulation across my mixes. Console emulation acts like a transient shaper. Whilst again I use Wave's - the Prochannel console emulation should be suffice for most. Hopefully you can see how the cake anology is apt.

Ben

Thanks for the input so far.  I will look into LoudMax.
 
Yeah, I'm already doing all the usual techniques, parallel processing, saturation, drum layering, etc.  That's not really the problem.  As I said, eventually I seem to end up with the need to slightly tame kick and snare transients. And rather than re-balance everything I often find it more sensible to try a limiter on the drum bus.    I do plan to look into a tape sim, as suggested, however as one additional avenue.
 
Sonic

SonicExplorer
...I just downloaded LoudMax it is only 360KB.   Does that sound right??...

 
The zip file is 449KB and contains 2 dll files, sizes 380KB and 398KB.

SonicExplorer
bitflipper, I just downloaded LoudMax it is only 360KB.   Does that sound right??.... seems more like the size of a virus.....    When I scanned it Norton took longer than I've ever seen to make up it's mind.

Sonic

These types of algorithmic processors typically are not large in size, because they don't carry internal payloads of large amounts of data. The largest VST DLLs are as big as they are because of graphical data, so the prettiest ones with photo-realistic knobs and graphics tend to be in the 2 MB+ range (e.g. FabFilter, iZotope). The 64-bit version of LoudMax, with its simple UI, is just 408 KB; I would expect the 32-bit version to be smaller.

I was going to suggest Cakewalk's amazing Adaptive Limiter, which I have running on most of my drum busses, but few have noted the elephant in this thread: . . . that you're running Win XP and Sonar Edition Producer 5 ?
I'm thinking bitflippers suggestion of LOUDMAX may be your best option.

The percussion strip was introduced in 8.5, so not an option for Sonic.
 
I am a fan of transient shapers, but that's probably the direct opposite of what the OP is looking for. You still need to follow a transient designer with a limiter.
 
I think what he's after is something that can limit dynamic range while preserving transients and adding some harmonic distortion. LoudMax mostly fills the bill there, although it's not that great at preserving transients. But if fat and thick is what you're after, it does that well.
 
Another one, not free but very cheap, is Nomad Factory's Bus Driver. It's not a limiter, but rather a compressor with a lot of distortion. Not bad on a drum bus and can be used on individual tracks as well.

SonicExplorer
 
 
One day I may be brave enough to try and move to Sonar 8.x though. But there would need to be some compelling reasons to do so....
 
Sonic

Unless you've previously purchased it or have dubious access to it, I don't think that's an option.
 
Rocky

I have an old Dell Inspiron laptop w/Intel P4 and 2GB RAM, and WinXP, that runs Sonar 8.5 and Project5 well.  It also has an integrated FireWire port.
 
Been a while since I booted it though...
 
Keep it in the closet, just in case! 

i actually get good results limiting my drum mix (Maschine) with a little bit of Boost 11.