Helpful ReplyDrum Map help

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LpMike75
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2009/11/24 16:44:18 (permalink)

Drum Map help

I have watched the YouTube tutorial and also read the help file, still I cannot seem to 'get it'
 
My project has a drum line in place with Addictive Drums.  I attempt to select the output on the AD midi clip so I can access the "drum map manager" but I do not get that option in any output or other boxes in that midi track.  I can seperately find the drum track manager "options - project" or something (not at DAW currently)  I suppose I can make a blank drum map from there but I do not know how to assign it to my track 5 (hypothetical number) which is my drum track.  I then cannot figure how to route the individual notes to a new track so I can seperate the Bass or Snare for instance. 
 
The next part of my question (or confusion) is, can all of this be done within the Step Sequencer?  I am certainly able to add new rows and map them accordingly from within Step Sequencer.  So it would appear it is doing the same thing as the standard drum map would do.  I am still at a loss on how to map individual notes to seperate tracks.  Must I pre-create blank midi tracks prior to sending notes to them?  I was under the impression they could be created automatically somehow.
 
Any help would be, erm, helpful.  And also appreciated.
Thanks
-Mike
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guitardog247
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/24 16:48:37 (permalink)
Hmm, the drum map should be there. I don't use AD anymore.
Sorry to ask, but did you read the manual?

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LpMike75
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/24 17:01:49 (permalink)
Are you suggesting the drum map has to be set from Addictive and not Sonar?  If that was the case it would make sense why there is no "Drum Map Manager" option from my Addictive Drum track output.  But that would confuse me more, as I thought I could route all midi notes from within Sonar
 
 
Edit for typos
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ducatibruce2
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/24 18:51:49 (permalink)
It should be in the pulldown on the midi track's output parameter.

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...wicked
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/24 20:35:07 (permalink)
Argh Drum Maps!  Me smash ancient technology!

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Blades
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/24 20:49:18 (permalink)
If you ahven't already, check out the video on this topic from the Sonar page of my website at www.blades85.com.  Maybe this will shed some light on it for you - not AD specific, but more generic - teach a man to fish...

Blades
www.blades85.com  - Practical Home Recording Info and Tutorials - NEW!
Looking for a video tutorial and the link isn't working?  Check the Sonar section of my website - they are being transitioned there.
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LpMike75
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/24 22:06:37 (permalink)
Yep I watched that one Blades, thank you for the help.  Although I did find it helpful, it seems like a tedious process to remove the snare and bass drums (for example) from the rest of the kit so you can put them on a seperate audio track.  I was hoping that there was some way I could automatically assign different tracks for the notes to go there from either Step Sequencer or the Drum Map.  I also havent figured out why I cant access the Drum Map Manager from the output of my Addictive Drums track folder.

Thanks for the reply
-Mike
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/24 23:14:14 (permalink)
Argh Drum Maps! Me smash ancient technology!

It was literaly an act of god when i got my drum map inserted into Superior2.2
I cross my fingers at the beginning of each new project wondering if ill insert it and configure it the right way.
Cj


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LpMike75
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/24 23:18:23 (permalink)
CJ did you use the drum maps to assign the appropriate notes to your electric kit?  I'm looking into getting a cheap electric kit soon but kind of dread the assignments of pads
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/25 07:00:36 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
It's not clear to me, why do you need the drum map if AD is all you're using? Have you got the map downloaded from AD's site?

Assigning kitpieces to different audio tracks is done easiest when you insert the softsynth via Synth Rack. Just click "...all audio outputs".

It's also explained very clearly in AD's manual, how you can do it afterwards. All you need to do is to click the arrow in the kit-piece-strip and set an audio track to receive the kitpiece.


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LpMike75
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/25 11:02:21 (permalink)
It's not clear to me, why do you need the drum map if AD is all you're using?

 
Simply so I can assign different drums to individual drums to individual tracks.  Although I do have a track template with AD when I open it via "insert soft synth" it will display mulitple tracks with different drums assigned to them, however I get no sound and have not been able to configure that particular set-up.  Also I would like to work with previously recorded drum lines that were recording on one track.
 
I will try your suggestion Kalle with the kit-piece-strip Kalle thank you.  I did not look towards AD as I was under the impression all routing had to be done within Sonar. 
 
Another silly problem I have, surely something obvious I am missing,  when I AM able to open a drum map manager, create a drum map-I assign the output of my midi track to that drum map, I get no sound.  Because well, the output is assigned to the drum map, and not the audio track routed to the master out. 
 
-Thanks for the suggestions, I will keep messing with it.  The whole drum map idea seems like it is way more involved and complicated that it should be.  This, coming from someone who has yet to get it right, so..for whatever thats worth.
-Mike
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/25 11:21:35 (permalink)
You don't need a drum map to get kitpieces to separate audio tracks. Drum map has got no role in that. Drum maps are use to directing different drum sounds to different keyboard keys to match instruments that are of different format from General Midi etc. I've used AD for as long as it's existed, always on multiple audio tracks and I've never used a drum map in my life.

Do you mean you get no sound at all from AD? Not even auditioning the beats? Have you done the tutorial on using soft synths? Are you familiar with using them?

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LpMike75
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/25 11:54:27 (permalink)
You were right Kalle, it was a matter of setting up the mixer within AD.  Thank you.  I knew it was something silly.

I use soft synths all the time, as well as Addictive Drums, I just never set up multiple outputs for it, as I did all my drum sound editing within AD and didnt really have a use for doing more of the same within Sonar.  But now I am branching out and getting crazy.  Thank you for the help :)

-Mike
PS - as far as the drum map use, I am aware of what you wrote, I also thought you could use it to assign different outs.  Guess I am gladly mistaken.  Thanks again.  Without this forum I would still be using my 4 track, trying to carefully de-thread my lovely recording from its wheels after it got hungry and ate it (for the 5th time)
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/25 15:18:29 (permalink)
One thing I forgot to mention. I don't know if it's beeen corrected. I haven't downloaded the latest updates of AD and I'm on SONAR 6.
 
The names of the individual audio tracks using AD are not correct. For example snare is "Kick-left", IIRC.

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dmmi
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/25 15:38:36 (permalink)
LpMike75


CJ did you use the drum maps to assign the appropriate notes to your electric kit?  I'm looking into getting a cheap electric kit soon but kind of dread the assignments of pads

Sorry to jump in here....I know your asking CJ.  But just to be clear you cannot fully use a Sonar drum map for an electronic Kit.

This is because you cannot assign CC data or aftertouch on a drum map (as far as I know....PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, that would be perfect!!)

CC data is used for HH pedal
polyphinic aftertouch is used for choking
(For Roland)

A drum map is only useful if you want to see descriptors and drum hits instead of note information ("snare" instead of "D2") as an example....don't quote the note on the example.

So if you want to map Addictive drums to Sonar which doesn't use the GM (general midi) map you can for all except the above midi data.

AD Drums also does not have a learn funtion so your kindof hooped......except.......

there is an external application called "Edrum Midi Mapper"

http://www.chaoticbox.com/edrum_midi_mapper.php


Which you can use to route the edrum brains midi data into soner........but now.....you need an internal software midi conduit to route the applications together.

I use Loopbe1 midi mapper to do this

http://nerds.de/en/loopbe1.html


HTH
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LpMike75
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/25 17:52:14 (permalink)
DM,
    Thank you for the info.  As someone who is fairly computer illiterate, I am now hessitant to attempt the electric drum route.  Seems like quite a hassle to use AD drums through an electric kit. 
I also have EZ drummer which has caused me nothing but hassle in attempting to re-register it when I swapped computers so I threw it to the wayside, added to that was I upgraded to 64 bit OS and would need J-bridge,  which I probably would never install correctly (see previous computer illiterate comment).
    The quest to improve as a musician is hurdled by learning how to use computers, record, mix, master, progress comes, but never as fast as I (we) would like.  Each of these subjects is so involved it could take years to become an "expert" even if just concentrating on one subject, forget all of them together.  Ya sorry for the rant, Im getting a headache.  Thanks again for the input, I'm glad I have a heads-up before dumping a bunch of money into a kit.
-Mike
   
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dmmi
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/25 18:10:24 (permalink)
LpMike75


DM,
    Thank you for the info.  As someone who is fairly computer illiterate, I am now hessitant to attempt the electric drum route.  Seems like quite a hassle to use AD drums through an electric kit. 
I also have EZ drummer which has caused me nothing but hassle in attempting to re-register it when I swapped computers so I threw it to the wayside, added to that was I upgraded to 64 bit OS and would need J-bridge,  which I probably would never install correctly (see previous computer illiterate comment).
    The quest to improve as a musician is hurdled by learning how to use computers, record, mix, master, progress comes, but never as fast as I (we) would like.  Each of these subjects is so involved it could take years to become an "expert" even if just concentrating on one subject, forget all of them together.  Ya sorry for the rant, Im getting a headache.  Thanks again for the input, I'm glad I have a heads-up before dumping a bunch of money into a kit.
-Mike
   
Well.....we all have to start somewhere, and if you are stepping back just because of your said computer illiteracy I would question your motivation because you DO make music which takes discipline and you DO have sequencer software  which shows your curiosity......so:

Don't hesitate man.....stick with it it isn't THAT bad, it just sounds that way 'cause you don't understand yet.

There are many people to help, and Edrums are IMO one the best way to get high quality drums into the computer effectively and timely.

Consider setting up and micing a whole acoustic kit......more work than mapping out an electronic right.

This leads me to my last point.......if you try and have problems, I use the setup mentioned frequently so I'll help you.....I even have templates I could give you.......but here's the caveat:

You have to try first, because you can only stand to learn from it. (it's what I did) use the internet and online forum searches (vdrums, edrums etc.....really helpful).....but then, if you get in a pinch..

I'll give you some files to get you going 

Note:  (if you get a Roland TD4 this would be the easiest as it's what I have)
              But we could still work with a different kit


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LpMike75
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/25 18:25:05 (permalink)
Coincidentally it is the Roland TD4S  that I was looking at.
Sorry for the rant again, no talk of giving up...only the feeling of running full steam up hill and everytime you look up you think "holy s^%# this thing is steep"

Instead of getting a the Edrum set before xmas I might wait till after, as I have several projects going and realize with the information you provided that the edrum set would slow me down initially, instead of the other way around.

I do appreciate the help and will no doubt be asking (if not down right begging) for more help when I do get the set.
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Blades
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Re:Drum Map help 2009/11/25 20:52:55 (permalink)
A drum map is only useful if you want to see descriptors and drum hits instead of note information ("snare" instead of "D2") as an example

Not really.  You get the note names, you get ONLY the notes that you want to see instead of all the notes that your kit will never produe, making things harder to see, and you can reorder the notes in any order you want.  You can also redirect notes to different ports or different notes or a combination of the two.

I too wish that they would include some more features and refinement in the maps, including the ability to map midi controller data like the hi hat and positional sensing.  But really, especially if you are using a drum kit to put the notes in, even if you are just going to reroute the notes back out to the same drum brain they came from, it's not hard to set it up to work.  You only have to do it once and then its set for whatever projects you want to use it in in the future. 

The reason any of this is relevent to the ability to send out to mutliple audio tracks is really more geared towards an external module, where if you were using some internal VST sample library, you would either freeze or bounce them to tracks.

At the end of the day, the most useful parts for me are in the look of the view when it's in drum map view rather than just piano roll view and the ability to single out individual midi kit parts while still in midi form while still having them all on one midi track.  To do this otherwise, you would have to split your drums out to multiple midi tracks or commit them to the audio tracks, neither of which is a good option for me.

Blades
www.blades85.com  - Practical Home Recording Info and Tutorials - NEW!
Looking for a video tutorial and the link isn't working?  Check the Sonar section of my website - they are being transitioned there.
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