AnsweredDrum Replacer - lag on bounce to clip

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John T
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2015/06/10 09:39:22 (permalink)

Drum Replacer - lag on bounce to clip

Anyone else encountered this?
 
Drum replacer seems to be on the nail when it's running live, but when I bounce the replacer track to a clip, there's a slight delay.
 
The top track is the original recorded kick drum, the bottom track is the bounced drum replacer kick. The lag is consistent throughout the track.
 

 
 

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John T
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Re: Drum Replacer - lag on bounce to clip 2015/06/10 09:42:18 (permalink)
Ah, actually, the lag varies slightly.

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CJaysMusic
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Re: Drum Replacer - lag on bounce to clip 2015/06/10 10:36:32 (permalink)
Have you tried real time rendering? Or even raising your ASIO  or WDM buffers a bit.
 
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John T
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Re: Drum Replacer - lag on bounce to clip 2015/06/10 11:06:54 (permalink)
Since it varies, I don't think it's that; it's just the perennial problem of transient detection. I should say that none of this is remotely in the range of audible timing errors.

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arachnaut
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Re: Drum Replacer - lag on bounce to clip 2015/06/10 11:59:41 (permalink)
Maybe it is due to an effect latency on that track?

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John T
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Re: Drum Replacer - lag on bounce to clip 2015/06/10 12:04:58 (permalink)
Well, again, I wouldn't expect that to vary. It doesn't really matter; like I say, it's in the micro-second range.

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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Drum Replacer - lag on bounce to clip 2015/06/10 12:09:02 (permalink)
You haven't upgraded your interface firmware and drivers recently? I assume you've done the latency loop back test and got the manual offset sorted... I have no idea if it would make a difference BTW just saying..

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Beepster
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Re: Drum Replacer - lag on bounce to clip 2015/06/10 12:11:04 (permalink)
One of the smarter folks on here (forget who... may have even been a Baker) once informed me that Fast Bounce actually is more solid than Real Time bounces because it uses exactly as much processing as it needs to perform the operation. Unlike real time bounce which HAS to use a set amount of power to perform the bounce at a specific speed.
 
Not your issue and I may have misinterpreted what that smart person was saying but thought I would mention it since CJay brought it up.
 
I concur that looking for lookahead or high latency effects would be a good start. Also if you have not installed the Everett hotfix that might help. The fluctuation is weird though and completely goes against the super precise detection/replacement that we've been told DR offers.
 
Maybe you should post a step by step with extra details for problem report testing.
 
Cheers.
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Beepster
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Re: Drum Replacer - lag on bounce to clip 2015/06/10 12:16:15 (permalink)
John T
micro-second range.




Microsecond... could it be a result of the sample bank? Like if you are using multi velocity samples maybe there is some slight timing variation between the samples at the various velocities?
 
I think a good test would be to load a single sample (as opposed to a bank) and see if the fluctuation still occurs.
 
Another question... are these delays enough to cause audible flamming between the original and the replacement sample(s)? If not, although not ideal, seems like a "close enough" scenario. Still worth investigating/reporting. DR is supposed to be ultra precise wo I'm sure the Bakers would like to ensure that is indeed the case.
 
 
Cheers.
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John T
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Re: Drum Replacer - lag on bounce to clip 2015/06/10 12:20:22 (permalink)
Beepster
Another question... are these delays enough to cause audible flamming between the original and the replacement sample(s)?

No. I wouldn't have noticed it if I hadn't zoomed in really close to do something else.

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Beepster
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Re: Drum Replacer - lag on bounce to clip 2015/06/10 12:27:44 (permalink)
John T
Beepster
Another question... are these delays enough to cause audible flamming between the original and the replacement sample(s)?

No. I wouldn't have noticed it if I hadn't zoomed in really close to do something else.




I wouldn't worry about it too much then. In fact it may be operating as intended. Perhaps if it slid the samples in exactly how you are envisioning the result would be less desirable. It may look at the overall sample as opposed to the very start and then make a judgment call as to what will make the replacement occur in the most natural way.
 
Like a kick with a slow attack and release being replaced with a tighter one that has a fast attack and release gets centered so the meat of the kick lands where it needs to to stay on time. If it was nudge to the very start of the original hit it may sound too soon and not last as long.
 
Just a thought. I have no idea if that's how it actually works. That would be pretty impressive though.
 
Cheers.
 
Edit: I just realized that may not make sense since the bounce is not reflecting the original replacement processing. However neither does a lot of Online rendering stuff versus offline so maybe the render process does something extra to make it tighter. Really though you should probably just ignore my blathering. Just trying to understand.
post edited by Beepster - 2015/06/10 12:39:31
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John Joseph [Cakewalk]
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Re: Drum Replacer - lag on bounce to clip 2015/06/10 12:38:29 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby John T 2015/06/10 12:44:28
Hey Y'all
 
I don't have a [Cakewalk] tag yet but I was involved with the hit detection algorithm used in Drum Replacer. We're working on some ideas on making it more sample accurate, but it's kind of a tough problem. Ideally the sample position would line up exactly, and I think we can do a lot better, but I'd say it's doubtful that we're going to have perfect sample alignment, especially with noisier tracks. 
 
However, to make a useful point, the lag you're seeing is most likely not due to bounce or any driver issue, but small errors in the algorithm that were not large enough to be audible. 
 
- John
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