Drum map not exporting

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Flashart
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2012/08/12 13:16:39 (permalink)

Drum map not exporting

I just got a Quad Capture to HS7xl. I've recorded a track with audio and midi. Everything plays fine but trying to export the mix to mp3 the drum map is silent. All other audio and midi work fine. Anyone have any ideas?
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    Kev999
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    Re:Drum map not exporting 2012/08/12 16:08:42 (permalink)
    Untick "fast bounce".  Export to WAV and convert the exported file to MP3 as a separate stage.


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    RobertB
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    Re:Drum map not exporting 2012/08/12 23:22:49 (permalink)

    I fully agree with Kev999 on exporting to wav first, then converting to MP3 later.
    But let's look at your project for a minute.
    The drum map is an intermediate step that directs how your MIDI notes will play in a given synth, be it hardware or software. The map itself does not produce sound. The sound comes from the synth it is drected to.
    In SHS7, you have Studio Instruments Drums(which has a specific map), and if it is available, you may have the MS Wavetable Synth.
    if the output of your drum map is directed to the MS Wavetable Synth, it can be tricky to get it to appear in your exported track.
    The maps are only really relevant if you have the synth named in the map.
    Which map are you using?
    What synths are you using, or have avaliable?
    What have you selected as your Export source?
    Tell us about your project, including as much detail as you can, even if it seems unimportant.

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    Flashart
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    Re:Drum map not exporting 2012/08/13 02:26:06 (permalink)
    I was using the MS Wavetable Synth which I realize is not great. I downloaded a drum soft synth which I've used, but it's not the same as what I originally wanted. (I'm using DM Acid map, but I'm currently at a different PC) Why doesn't MS Wavetable work? Or can you only use it as a soft synth?
    post edited by Flashart - 2012/08/13 02:27:54
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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:Drum map not exporting 2012/08/13 03:33:14 (permalink)
    MS Wavetable isn't like the other soft synths in SHS, because it is not a VST instrument, it's embedded in you OS (or motherboard or something like that). You can't bounce/export it the same way.
    Would you not get much, much better drum sounds from Session Drummer - SHS7XL includes it, doesn't it?

    Are you sure you undestand the concept of drum maps correctly? MS Wavetable follows the General Midi standards, so there should be no need to use any map, nor do the maps have any effect on the sound.

    Drum Maps are software that you need when the drum MIDI loops/drum machine and the drum software have the kitpieces on different keyboard keys. It creates routing like "This synth has snare sound on key C3 indstead of D3".  The drum map has no effect on the actual sound.

    What is an DM Acid Map?? All I could find with Google was Duel Maps for games and maps for Sony Acid.
    post edited by Kalle Rantaaho - 2012/08/13 03:35:45

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    57Gregy
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    Re:Drum map not exporting 2012/08/13 10:30:44 (permalink)
    As RobertB mentioned, drum maps are neither soft synths nor sounds. They are lists of sounds to make it easier for the user to program drums for a particular drum machine or soft synth. If you do not have the drum machine listed with the map, i. e. "Alesis DM 5 Acid Kit", then you will just get standard General MIDI drum sounds. The drum map mean nothing if you don't have the synth it goes to.
     
    Here is the link to Cakewalk's FAQ showing how to bounce the MS GS Wavetable synth:
     
    http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/reader.aspx/2007013079
     
     

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    Flashart
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    Re:Drum map not exporting 2012/08/13 13:30:05 (permalink)
    I think I understand drum maps in that I knew they don't make the sound. But the different maps don't all make the same sounds in the same positions. (The "routing") What I couldn't figure out was why it worked fine before exporting but get it now it's the synth that's embedded not VST. I am new at this, I think it's synths I don't really fully get yet.
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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:Drum map not exporting 2012/08/13 14:33:58 (permalink)
    Flashart


    I think I understand drum maps in that I knew they don't make the sound. But the different maps don't all make the same sounds in the same positions. (The "routing") What I couldn't figure out was why it worked fine before exporting but get it now it's the synth that's embedded not VST. I am new at this, I think it's synths I don't really fully get yet.


    You don't need any drum maps if you make drums with, say, Session Drummer using its own MIDI-beats or ones you make yourself. You only need drum maps if the loops and drum software don't match. Using a map when it's not needed only messes the drum software. A misused map only makes the drum software play, say, ride cymbal when it should play hi-tom, and it may totally hide many features, and you can imagine how it can make a normal rock beat sound! Addictive Drums, which I use, for example, has palm-mute for cymbals next to the cymbal keys. If I add a GM drum map that does not have palm-mutes at all, it doesn't work right. But I can use a Groove Monkey drum map to make Addictive Drums play the Groove Monkey loops correctly (I hope I'm keeping my thoughts in order :o)

    This:" But the different maps don't all make the same sounds in the same positions." makes me think you don't quite grasp the map concept yet. I think it's best that you simply forget the maps until you are familiar with the drum softwares, Session Drummer or TTS-1 in this case.

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    RobertB
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    Re:Drum map not exporting 2012/08/13 22:31:04 (permalink)

    Synths and routing can defintely be confusing at first.
    The main reason most of us don't recommend using the MS Wavetable synth is that is is somewhat of an anomaly.
    It is technically a softsynth, but it is seen as an external hardware synth by Sonar (SHS7).
    It operates outside the Sonar environment, and its audio output follows a different path.
    This is why it is difficult to get it to export properly, and getting it to do so can cause problems with the rest of your project.

    "But the different maps don't all make the same sounds in the same positions."

    This is true, and Kalle has touched on that.
    The different maps redirect the notes to different drum sounds. Most of the hardware devices listed, such as the Alesis DM5 Acid Kit, are not mapped to GM, so the drum sounds that get triggered may or may not be what they claim to be when using the MS Synth. it is merely interpreting the data the best it can.

    Try this:
    Insert TTS-1(this is a General MIDI synth included with SHS7)
    Select:
    First Synth Audio Output
    Synth Properties Page

    Now, change the output of your MIDI drum track to TTS-1.
    Set the Channel to 10 (not absolutely necessary, but follows convention)
    Set the Bank to 15360-Preset Rhythm (this one is important)
    Click on the Patch button.
    You will see a handfull of Named patches, and many with just numbers.
    Select one of the Named patches. The numbered ones contain no data and will drop back to something TTS-1 can identify.
    Play the one you have selected ( I like the Power Set myself).
    Now, select a different named patch, and play again.
    Do you hear a difference?
    If you open the PRV, you will see that these sets are mapped for you.
    The major benefit is that TTS-1 is a soft synth operating within the SHS envirnment, and exporting is much easier.
    Sorry for being so wordy, but I know how confusing this stuff can be when you are starting out.
    You might also like Session Drummer 2. It's a $10 download, and a fairly decent drum synth.
    There is also a preset drum map for it.

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    Flashart
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    Re:Drum map not exporting 2012/08/14 02:27:45 (permalink)
    Cheers for the help. I know I don't "don't need any drum maps" but it was just a quick way of getting different noises in the same positions with the sequencer thingy. Some say that Session Drummer is part of HS7 but I couldn't find it so that explains that.
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    Kev999
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    Re:Drum map not exporting 2012/08/14 04:04:47 (permalink)
    Flashart

    Some say that Session Drummer is part of HS7 but I couldn't find it... 
    Session Drummer was included with version 6 of Home Studio XL, but I believe that version 7 has Studio Instuments Drums instead.


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    Flashart
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    Re:Drum map not exporting 2012/08/14 12:55:46 (permalink)
    I think I used a drum map correctly last night. ie The correct map name for the correct name soft synth. The drums appeared to be in the correct places but what I found unusual was that most of the action takes place in say, numbers 38 to 58 but then there would be a big gap and one thing at 91 then another at 98 etc. I get that these things might correspond to a certain pitch, but is there anyway of knowing how many available sounds there are without manual scrolling through the numbers?
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    RobertB
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    Re:Drum map not exporting 2012/08/14 19:37:20 (permalink)
    Are you opening the PRV(Piano Roll View)?
    This is where the map information is most useful.
    Below, I have two views of the same track, showing slightly different information.
    Both have the PRV showing to the right.
    The first shows the normal track view with a regular MIDI clip at center.
    The second shows the inline PRV at center. I don't really like the inline PRV, because it is somewhat limited.
    Also, coming back to your original export question, notice that in the second view, the synth audio output has been set to my master bus. This is beneficial for overall control of your projects, as well as making your exports go smoothly.
    Both of these views are in the SHS7/MC5 format, and should be similar to what you see.
    Are you seeing something different?
    Also, what synth and map are you using?





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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
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