Drum recording and EQ on the way in - record pre or post ??

Karl I don't think it is a bad thing necessarily to pre EQ on the way in. As long as you choose your EQ carefully. eg If I put a SM 57 on a snare, I already know that a 57 is slightly lacking in top end or crispness being a dynamic and all. So I could record it flat but I know later that I am going to have to shelve it in the high end later down the track at some point. So there is certainly nothing wrong with a little pre boost on the way in. eg shelf EQ set at 8K or so and maybe just 3 or 4 db boost. It just sets up the sound on the way in and it means less EQ later on especially in that area.

The overheads mic might be a little bright and some gentle shelving downward on the way in might be just the ticket too.

Bottom end could be treated that way too. I think the shelving EQ is the only thing I would probably use. Nothing too wild in the mids etc on the way in though, leave that till later. Experiment a bit. The kick mic too might need a little extra shelving low end but test and see. Or the kick mike might be a little overbearing in the very deep low end and a little shelf cut might do the trick on the way in.

The best way to find out is to record all your drum mics perfectly flat on the way in then play back the tracks and solo and listen to see if and what mics could use any EQ adjustments on the way in. If you feel after doing this test that they all sound pretty good then I would not worry about any EQ on the way in but the ones that need it will certainly stand out.

I have got a strange set of mikes on all my drums and yet I get a killer drum sound. (Probably because it is a Sonor kit too and they are after all the best drums in the world, period!) But the reason is that each mic adds its own character to the drum sound and what you are thinking of doing is similar in a way. Use the eq to effect and add its own touch to your drum sound. You won't get the sound of the ZED-R16 EQ any other way so give it go. Because I have got funny old vocal mics on the toms for example I find that a bit of mid range dip on the way in makes them sound amazing.

FastBikerBoy


I have a great sounding EQ on my mixing desk (ZED-R16) with the option to record post or pre-EQ. I can get some great sounding drums using the said EQ but would it be better to record pre-EQ and then re-EQ it later as required or record post EQ.

I realise I can EQ later anyway whichever way I go but am I better off getting as good a base to work from as I can or is it gambling too much that what sounds good at tracking time will actually hinder come mixing?

All opinions welcome, thanks.

Hi Karl,
 
Well, this is one of my pet peeves. You know the whole ITB vs. OTB thing, right? You're in those waters now in a sense. This coloration you are hearing is what guys that use OTB or analog gear hear as well. So they'll use it because to them, it sounds right. This is all well and good....the thing YOU have to be concerened with is..."does it really sound right or am I over-processing?"
 
This is the sort of thing you risk unfortunately and if you DO happen to over-do it, you either have to try to perform a little surgery or of course re-cut the track. Now let me ask you a question if I may?
 
This eq curve you have going on.....if you were to kill it, could you duplicate it in Sonar once the part was recorded? If your answer is "yes" by all means don't use it. Don't risk losing that control you have unless this eq you are using is special. See, this is where the OTB/ITB thing comes in. There are certain analog pieces of gear OTB that will give you a sound that nothing in your Sonar arsenal will. When you are faced with this unique type of situation, for sure use the outboard eq. But, if you can get really close or spot on, it's not worth the risk. Here's why...
 
In my opinion, one of the worst mistakes I used to make in recording was when I tried to mix something before I was done recording everything. It not only wastes time, but you really don't know WHAT is going to work at this point because it's not done. It's not even worth investigating at this point or trying to manipulate something to sound good. I know...that sort of sounds counter-productive, doesn't it? The point is...if something cannot stand on its own without enhancement, I don't print it...so I'm not in this situation anymore. Make sense? If you are just at the tracking stage right now...and the kit you are working with sounds good, yet that little bit of console eq is making it sound cooler...how do you really know at this point if "cooler" is the answer to where you'd risk destructively putting it on? See my point?
 
I don't worry about "cool enhancement" until I literally try to mix. The reason being...what may sound great on its own, may not fit with the mix of other instruments. Also, I'm not in the mixing frame of mind at this point...I'm tracking. I'm not concerened with enhancement...I want the best sound source I can get that doesn't sound too over-colored or under-colored based on my knowledge of good instrumentation pre-mix. I'm listening to performances as well. I'm not at the mixing stage, so I'm not listening for that nor am I super concerned with it. As long as the instrument print sounds good and has a balance that is controllable....I'm right where I need to be.
 
If I record a kick drum and add extra bass from a board eq...making that decision now may kill me if I'm not careful. I don't know how much thump in that kick I may need or not need at THIS point. I know that if I over-do it, I'm going to have to recut it though and I really don't feel like going backwards. So, this is why I stay away from stuff like that. Now, if you really know your stuff and have a general understanding as to what is too much or not enough, sure, you can make that decision easy enough. But if you are unsure and can pretty much do the same thing with PC or a Sonitus eq or something, for sure leave it off man. Just my opinion though. :)
 
-Danny

There are certainly two schools of thought on this. I think if you are not sure what you are doing then Danny's approach is a good one. But if you are confident in what you are doing then my approach can also work well.

One could argue that if a 57 on a snare is definitely going to need a certain amount of shelf hf boost and you have a pretty good idea how much then why not do it before hand. Then you don't need a plugin, no cpu resources being used, no distortion being added by the plugin etc, it's all avoided.

3 or 4 db of boost is not significant in the context I was referring to. If it's shelving boost above 6 or 8K say then the effect is going to be minor but noticeable. But 3 or 4 db of boost at 1K for example over a wide bandwidth is going to sound huge so it does depend in what circumstances you are going to use it.

Is it that different from recording a guitarist with chorus on. I certainly prefer doing that as it get's done and dusted and you don't have to worry about it later. The only time I would question it perhaps is if the chorus or delay etc sounded excessive at the time.

It gets back to that old English vs American thing. The brits like recording with everything on, make the decision there and then and be done with it. Live with it work with it. The American folks still like recording everything flat and adding things later. (or have they learned from the brits yet!)

When I record my hardware synthesisers for example I always record with the effects processing on. Because the effects inside a Kurzweil or Emulator or Yamaha A5000 or Korg M1 are absolutely unique to that instrument and I get a much nicer and richer sound as a result compared to say leaving all those effects off and adding them inside the DAW. It just does not sound the same. I even leave reverbs on in some situations but I am careful with reverb though not to overdo it obviously in case it gets in the way later.

Hi all and thanks for the replies....

I guess you've all just confirmed what I suspected. That is I really don't know what I'm doing well enough to start printing anything 'to tape' at this stage, I'm still getting my head around mic positions and even if I did know what I was doing it's not a great idea if I can recreate it later which I can. I still have the option of running tracks back out through the ZED EQ and recording it back to a new layer or track later so I guess it becomes a bit of a no brainer really, or perhaps a dumb question in the first place.

I think I was just trying to see if I could save a little time without compromising sound too much. Perhaps if I had the experience I might do it but if I had the experience I wouldn't be asking the question I guess....

Oh well, onwards and upwards on my drum recording learning curve. Thanks again for the replies, they are all appreciated.

Now where's my drummer gone..............

If there was some inherent sound to your board, that you knew and loved and found that it gives you great results when you use the EQ, sure use it for tracking. If you have some vocal with an annoying resonant peak, you surely don't want that on your tracks, EQ it out. If you can get some nice cymbal splash by pushing up your EQ on the high end, use it.

I guess the rule of thumb is, if you know enough about how you want the sounds to work together after listening to the instruments or vocal in the room, EQ before is fine. Either experience or learning should be your guide. You may find however, that your mics capture things pretty darn close and I would experiment with those first to get a feel for the EQ capturing characteristics of each one and where to apply them. That may all but eliminate tracking EQ.

Generally, if your mic choices, pattern or angle, or room location are not getting you the results you need, EQ may be necessary. Personally, unless I had a really nice EQ and I was going for something specific, I would not use one prior. If I knew that a mic/preamp combination was not going to get me a deep low end, if I had a Pultec, I would use it.

Regarding cutting or boosting EQs. I would boost with hardware but not software because there are few software EQs that sound good boosted. Cut and then raise levels if required when in the box to avoid that 2k area that builds up in the box. All that said, different people do different things and if we all do the same thing everybody's music sounds like everybody else's.