Helpful ReplyEQ Question

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rgturner
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2015/06/23 16:49:03 (permalink)

EQ Question

I'm trying to use the LP-64 EQ.  What a good setting to EQ an orchestra (Strings, Brass, Woodwinds and Percussion)?  This is for the overall mix.
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jeff oliver
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Re: EQ Question 2015/06/23 17:13:57 (permalink)
It depends. What does it sound like now? What's lacking or overly exaggerated? Listen to the mix and it will tell you what it needs. Maybe nothing. I've never had to eq and orchestra but the approach would be the same for any music. Don't do anything without a reason for doing it. Start with a fairly narrow eq and sweep the upper levels to see what jumps out at you, good or bad. Accent the good pull out the bad. Anyway, that's what I'd do. Someone with some experience in this genre might chime in. Peace.
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rgturner
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Re: EQ Question 2015/06/23 17:15:43 (permalink)
Thanks!  I may not have to do anything.
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jeff oliver
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Re: EQ Question 2015/06/23 17:24:32 (permalink)
Exactly! Eq is a great tool but it's one of the quickest ways of making a mix fall apart. Again, maybe someone else could help you more. Run it through the quad curve eq and see where your frequencies are. If you have some extreme lows maybe just use a high pass filter but be careful not to take too much out. Only the subs like 40 to 50hz maybe.
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gswitz
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Re: EQ Question 2015/06/23 20:45:16 (permalink)
Turn everything all the way up like in the movie risky business. It always makes it sound better.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Re: EQ Question 2015/06/24 12:04:18 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby DRanck 2015/06/25 10:51:29
If the piece is 100% orchestral, the only equalization you're likely to need is a HPF around 30-40Hz to take out rumble, and if it's entirely sampled instruments then the library developer has probably already done that for you.
 
Some libraries do have harsh-sounding strings (I won't mention any names), in which case you'll want to find where the harshness lives (start your hunt around 5-7KHz) and dip it 3-4dB. High-quality orchestral libraries, however, already sound like they're supposed to sound and rarely require any tinkering.
 
If the orchestra is backing a pop/rock piece with bass, drums and vocals, you'll probably want to move the HPF up to 100-200 Hz and add some attenuation around the vocal harmonics frequencies (1-3KHz). 


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batsbrew
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Re: EQ Question 2015/06/24 15:56:07 (permalink)
EQ choices should only be made in the context of the mix.
 
the source sound, dictates if anything needs to be eq'd, once the mix is all up.
 
 

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Jeff Evans
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Re: EQ Question 2015/06/24 17:19:31 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bluzdog 2015/06/24 21:00:30
What you are wanting at the end of the day is a smooth sounding well balanced evened response orchestral mix.  Lets us call that our reference orchestral mix.  A great thing to do is to listen to reference well balanced orchestral mixes through your monitors and in your acoustics to get a sense of what that sounds like.
 
What is a well balanced orchestral reference sound.  If you break up the spectrum into Lows, Mids and Highs you are in a sense talking about well managed amounts of all three without being too excessive in any one area.  You can also break the Mids up into Lower Mids, Mids and Upper Mids.  So you can think of the spectrum now being broken into 5 areas.  Lows, Lower Mids, Mids, Upper Mids, Highs.
 
If you listen to orchestral reference mixes while you mix you will arrive there much sooner and need very little mastering EQ to correct it out further.  But even so using the LP64 for an overall EQ is a nice thing to do and it sounds very nice while doing it.
 
Compare your final mix to the orchestral reference mix and that will tell what to do in say the 5 parts of the spectrum.  There is no one setting for a great orchestral sound in the LP64 because it is a combination of the mix spectral sound plus the setting of the LP64 at that time over that mix that will hopefully land you in the same territory as that great orchestral reference mix.  The LPEQ will be different every time.  If you use more of one section too eg brass you will need a slightly different mastering EQ in the Upper Mids for example to get back to that nice reference sound.
 
The LP64 is a great EQ and can do everything at once.  Tame the very bottom end for rumble removal, and shaping the low end EQ nicely.  Essential.  Top end shelving boosting or cut to set the highs up nice. And plenty of mid range EQ options to sort out those three tricky Mid areas.  All in all a nice mastering EQ.

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bluzdog
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Re: EQ Question 2015/06/24 20:54:38 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
What you are wanting at the end of the day is a smooth sounding well balanced evened response orchestral mix.  Lets us call that our reference orchestral mix.  A great thing to do is to listen to reference well balanced orchestral mixes through your monitors and in your acoustics to get a sense of what that sounds like.
 
What is a well balanced orchestral reference sound.  If you break up the spectrum into Lows, Mids and Highs you are in a sense talking about well managed amounts of all three without being too excessive in any one area.  You can also break the Mids up into Lower Mids, Mids and Upper Mids.  So you can think of the spectrum now being broken into 5 areas.  Lows, Lower Mids, Mids, Upper Mids, Highs.
 
If you listen to orchestral reference mixes while you mix you will arrive there much sooner and need very little mastering EQ to correct it out further.  But even so using the LP64 for an overall EQ is a nice thing to do and it sounds very nice while doing it.
 
Compare your final mix to the orchestral reference mix and that will tell what to do in say the 5 parts of the spectrum.  There is no one setting for a great orchestral sound in the LP64 because it is a combination of the mix spectral sound plus the setting of the LP64 at that time over that mix that will hopefully land you in the same territory as that great orchestral reference mix.  The LPEQ will be different every time.  If you use more of one section too eg brass you will need a slightly different mastering EQ in the Upper Mids for example to get back to that nice reference sound.
 
The LP64 is a great EQ and can do everything at once.  Tame the very bottom end for rumble removal, and shaping the low end EQ nicely.  Essential.  Top end shelving boosting or cut to set the highs up nice. And plenty of mid range EQ options to sort out those three tricky Mid areas.  All in all a nice mastering EQ.


Jeff, I just have to say Kudos on such an insightful, well thought out reply. That right there is an example of what makes the Cake forums awesome!!!
 
Rocky
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synkrotron
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Re: EQ Question 2015/06/25 02:10:28 (permalink)
First of all, apologies for butting in here 
 
Jeff Evans
So you can think of the spectrum now being broken into 5 areas.  Lows, Lower Mids, Mids, Upper Mids, Highs.



This is something I have been looking into more in the last month or so... Yeah, I know I should have done this about thirty years ago...
 
Anyway, I've used google to try an establish what are the actual frequencies being referred to when we say, low, low middle, middle, high middle and high. It's just the way I am... I need labels and sharply defined boundaries and I find "grey areas" a tad frustrating (just the way I've grown up, much to the annoyance of those close to me).
 
I found a few interesting articles, although, this is the internet and it's always a question of what can be trusted.
 
This Wikipedia page is a short article about audio frequency:-
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_frequency
 
Although it doesn't mention low, low middle, etc. it does have five distinct "bands" that relate to octaves, so I'm sure most of us can relate to that. From the Wikipedia page:-
 
16 to 32, 1st octave - The human threshold of hearing, and the lowest pedal notes of a pipe organ.
32 to 512, 2nd to 5th octave - Rhythm frequencies, where the lower and upper bass notes lie.
512 to 2048, 6th to 7th octave -  Defines human speech intelligibility, gives a horn-like or tinny quality to sound.
2048 to 8192, 8th to 9th octave - Gives presence to speech, where labial and fricative sounds lie.
8192 to 16384, 10th octave - Brilliance, the sounds of bells and the ringing of cymbals and sibilance in speech.
 
Then there is this article:-
 
http://www.teachmeaudio.com/mixing/techniques/audio-spectrum
 
It suggests that there are seven "bands" as follows:-
 
Sub Bass: 20 to 60 Hz
Bass: 60 to 250 Hz
Low Midrange: 250 to 500 Hz
Midrange: 500 Hz to 2 kHz
Upper Midrange: 2 to 4 kHz
Presence: 4 kHz to 6 kHz
Brilliance: 6 kHz to 20 kHz
 
I suppose that both articles are helpful, but it appears to me that this may not be an exact science and is another one of those areas open to experience and opinion.
 
To anyone who may have got this far, I suppose the question is, what are your thoughts?
 
cheers
 
andy

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Jeff Evans
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Re: EQ Question 2015/06/25 03:58:17 (permalink)
I have a similar line of thought except I see the bottom end a little differently.
For me:
 
Lows 20 - 150/200Hz  (I treat the lows all in one band and include sub bass as well as bass)
Lower Mids (which I also sometimes think of as upper lows) 200 - 500 Hz
Mids 500 - 2 kHz
Upper Mids 2 kHz - 6 kHz (but yes you can break this down into 2 bands as well 2K-4K and 4K-6K)
Highs 5-6 kHz and up
 
The lower mids is often an area where a mix can get clogged up a bit.  Semetimes all it takes is a little dip around 250-300 Hz to clear things up nicely. The whole rest of the mix can sometimes change (for the better usually) when you do this so try it first.
 
Harrison Mixbus has got a knob right on the master buss aimed right at this lower mid area and it works a treat. Just one small movement is all it takes.

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synkrotron
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Re: EQ Question 2015/06/25 04:35:21 (permalink)
Cheers Jeff, yet again 
 
It's getting easier for me now, with your words here, amongst others, and the second article I linked to, to form my own understanding. I certainly don't have the hearing skills required and I'm mainly relying on SPAN at the moment. I am spending more time listening to other peoples music at the moment and, where possible, putting it into Sonar so I can use SPAN. So that is helping a great deal.
 
Jeff Evans
The lower mids is often an area where a mix can get clogged up a bit.



I'm having a lot of trouble in this area... But I'm working on it.
 
And I should probably have raised this in my own EQ topic, so sorry, again, to the OP of this topic.
 
cheers
 
andy

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DRanck
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Re: EQ Question 2015/06/25 10:46:27 (permalink)
Very good info guys. Thanks.

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