Helpful ReplyEQ TIPS ?

Author
blu lacez
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 26
  • Joined: 2014/08/24 18:20:02
  • Location: DUBLIN, IRELAND .
  • Status: offline
2014/09/11 02:23:07 (permalink)

EQ TIPS ?

What tips do you guys use on Sonar, or woudl you guys utllize external plugins??
Im liking the qaudcore on Soanr X3 . However, Im still fighting with the dirty bass on vocals. How do they make the vocals so smooth, ne tips?
 
By the way, I do not use any external plugins, just in house-i.e the plugins that come with X3.

Sonar Version: X3 64 bit
Audio Interface: M-Audio ProFire 2626L 
Computer: Windows7  Pro x64


#1
Kalle Rantaaho
Max Output Level: -5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 7005
  • Joined: 2006/01/09 13:07:59
  • Location: Finland
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/11 06:20:48 (permalink)
Are you fighting to build dirty bass on vocals or to get rid of it? :o) Well, I read it you're aiming at smoothness.
First thing first: Is it due to the microphone or mic technique?
Are you double tracking the vocals, artificially or  real?
What's your workflow/FX chain like?
 
I'm just an amateur, but as there is no one trick, you need to give us some idea of what and how you're doing things.

SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre  -  Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc.
The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
#2
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3873
  • Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/11 06:55:09 (permalink)
Some people prefer external EQs for various reasons, but there is no reason you shouldn't be able to get good results with the QuadCurve. It sounds like you have a lot of proximity effect going on in the recording. As was already suggested, different mic technique can help. If that is no option you can try rolling off a lot of lows and automating when. Alternatively, you could try a MultiBand compressor like the Sonitus one and set it to compress the lows.
#3
Guitarpima
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4125
  • Joined: 2005/11/19 23:53:59
  • Location: Terra 3
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/11 08:34:08 (permalink)
I don't think it matters, really, which EQ you use. Knowing fully how to use them is the tricky part.  They all do the same thing, it's just how they do it.
 
My advice would be to head over to Groove 3 and check out their video series, EQ explained. There are plenty of free stuff on Youtube and plenty of articles to be read as well. There is no easy answer though once you understand the nuances, it's easier. A Carnegie chart is another helpful tool.
 
 


Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy.
 
 Win 7 x64  X2  Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3  ASUS ATI EAH5750  650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb  DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
#4
lapieuvre
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 221
  • Joined: 2008/03/17 14:08:14
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/11 08:36:49 (permalink)
Hofa Iq-Eq You won't beleive how good this thing is

Win 7 64 bits, Intel core2 quad Q9550 (2.83ghz)
Fireface 800, Sonar X1 Producer
Live 8 Suite, Kontakt 4

#5
Kalle Rantaaho
Max Output Level: -5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 7005
  • Joined: 2006/01/09 13:07:59
  • Location: Finland
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/11 09:39:43 (permalink)
My full points to DDMF for price/quality -ratio. Excellent EQs.

SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre  -  Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc.
The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
#6
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 14070
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/11 10:06:23 (permalink)
Here's an article with plenty of EQ tips.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#7
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 14070
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/11 10:07:18 (permalink)
Guitarpima
I don't think it matters, really, which EQ you use. Knowing fully how to use them is the tricky part.  They all do the same thing, it's just how they do it.



+1,000

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#8
brconflict
Max Output Level: -56.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1891
  • Joined: 2012/10/05 21:28:30
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/11 10:13:02 (permalink)
Assuming that the vocals are already tracked and cannot be re-tracked, here's a few things I'd try:
 
Add an EQ and steeply roll off the bottom end below 200Hz using the High-Pass filter in the Quad EQ.
Place a multi-band limiter on the vocals (preferably Waves with priority thresholds), and set the limiting threshold of the low end to much lower than the rest of the vocal spectrum. If using Waves, set the Priority setting of the low end to the lowest of the spectrum. That will allow the rest of the vocal to "survive" the dirty-bass frequencies, instead of "pumping" the vocal.
You may need to add another roll-off EQ after the limiter.
Don't overlook the use of a the 76-type compressor pushed really hard. In harder-edged bands, I believe vocals are super-compressed over even the more dynamic mixes (although most modern mixes are slammed to the wall, anyway).
 
After all this, if the vocal needs a little warmth, then add some Tube Saturation or a favorite color using a modeled EQ.

Brian
 
Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
#9
AT
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10654
  • Joined: 2004/01/09 10:42:46
  • Location: TeXaS
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/11 10:22:03 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2014/09/14 07:47:27
Without hearing the vocal, everything is just guessing.  But in general, if the recording sounds bad, it is better to retrack it.  Fixing it in the mix is a half-measure.  So,
 
1.  A decent room.  Even if you are close micing it will still pick up the tone of the room.  And if the room has resonances and build up, the mic will put them into the recording.  Listen to the room and hear how it interacts w/ the acoustic being recorded.
 
2.  1.  A decent mic.  Even a cheap Chinese condenser or solid dynamic can work.  You haven't told us what you've used.
 
3.  An external preamp can help.  This doesn't mean you need to drop $1000s on an old Neve (doesn't hurt), but if your room is OK you don't have to swallow the mic.  Once you back it off you get a more even sound (see proximity effect) in frequency and volume.  Also, slight movements don't effect the tone so much.  Most built-in preamp are OK, but don't have a lot of gain.  Look at any recording session at a pro facility and the singer is around 2 feet away from the mic - or more.  There is a right balance of distance for any singer/mic combo and your preamp has to provide enough gain to utilize it, without crapping out at sudden increases in volume.
 
4.  Mic technique from the engineer and artist.  Use a pop filter.  It keeps the talent from swallowing their mic, which they've seen all the singers do in a live show where gain w/o feedback is the key.  Just like finding the right distance, finding the right angle can be important.  Above, angled down, is a good starting place for a condenser, so the talent (or not talented) isn't blowing directly into the mic.
 
As far as your problem today, dirty bass on the vox.  It sounds like proximity effect (which happens w/ all cardioid mics - a heart-shaped pick-up pattern) and/or being overdriven.  If it is distortion there is not much you can do.  But in general, on most voices in most styles of music you use a high-pass filter to diminish all the lower frequencies.  There is no useful info below 100 dB or higher for many instruments, only ac rumbles, trucks on the streets, moving air, etc.  It eats up headroom.  Set your HPF to a steep cut off and start raising it while listening to the track.  Do this soloed and in context w/ the music.  At some point you'll hear it cut into the meat of the vocal and then back it off until you don't.  You can also fiddle w/ the cut off slope.  It is a technical skill that gets easier as you learn and develop your own ear about what sounds right.  This technique also works for all EQing and other effects.  Overdue it, and back off.
 
Still, the best method is to capture the right sound at the source.  This is a craft as much as anything, a set of techniques that have worked for you before through trial and error.  The art part is knowing beforehand what the right sound is for the song before you even start tracking.
 
@
 
 

https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
 
there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
#10
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
  • Total Posts : 26036
  • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
  • Location: Everett, WA USA
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/11 10:23:14 (permalink)
As noted above, which EQ you use is almost irrelevant. You choose an EQ mainly for ergonomic friendliness and sometimes special features such as M/S or dynamic processing. If you're comfortable with SONAR's built-in equalizers, there is really no need to look elsewhere.
 
"Smoothness" is a multi-faceted ideal. It certainly involves EQ, but that's not the primary variable. Consistency is the real target. Consistency in volume and consistency in spectral content. Automation and compression are the main tools for achieving volume consistency. Spectral consistency starts with the microphone, the singer, and the room you're recording in.
 
It sounds like you may be experiencing problems that are acoustical in origin, which can be difficult to mitigate after the fact. Look into dynamic equalizers and multi-band compressors as a potential remedy. But also research acoustical treatments to avoid having to mitigate spectral inconsistency by digital means.
 
Your first step should be an analysis of the vocal tracks. Get one of the free spectrum analyzers out there such as Voxengo SPAN or Meldaproduction's MAnalyzer and see what's going on in your tracks. You'll probably find that there are large intermittent peaks, or perhaps that there is distortion from driving your mic preamp too hard. Whatever the problem, you must identify what it is first before you can devise a strategy for correcting it.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
#11
blu lacez
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 26
  • Joined: 2014/08/24 18:20:02
  • Location: DUBLIN, IRELAND .
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/11 13:12:57 (permalink)
Thanks folks. I purposely left some things out, as I wanted to gage how folks approach this intricate part of Eq'ing.
i think AT is onto something prmximy could be an issue , although the pop shield is not so close to the mic, and neitehr is the artist to the pop shield . Perhaps, along with the vocal it is perhaps picking up the reverbantion, perhaps, that could be adding to the natrural bass?? 
Multiband compr seems to be poping up a lot in this thread, so I will look into including that in my arsenal, as i tend to leave that in the master bus adn not in the vocal track.

Sonar Version: X3 64 bit
Audio Interface: M-Audio ProFire 2626L 
Computer: Windows7  Pro x64


#12
blu lacez
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 26
  • Joined: 2014/08/24 18:20:02
  • Location: DUBLIN, IRELAND .
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/11 13:21:34 (permalink)
AT
Without hearing the vocal, everything is just guessing.  But in general, if the recording sounds bad, it is better to retrack it.  Fixing it in the mix is a half-measure.  So,
 
1.  A decent room.  Even if you are close micing it will still pick up the tone of the room.  And if the room has resonances and build up, the mic will put them into the recording.  Listen to the room and hear how it interacts w/ the acoustic being recorded.
 
2.  1.  A decent mic.  Even a cheap Chinese condenser or solid dynamic can work.  You haven't told us what you've used.
 
3.  An external preamp can help.  This doesn't mean you need to drop $1000s on an old Neve (doesn't hurt), but if your room is OK you don't have to swallow the mic.  Once you back it off you get a more even sound (see proximity effect) in frequency and volume.  Also, slight movements don't effect the tone so much.  Most built-in preamp are OK, but don't have a lot of gain.  Look at any recording session at a pro facility and the singer is around 2 feet away from the mic - or more.  There is a right balance of distance for any singer/mic combo and your preamp has to provide enough gain to utilize it, without crapping out at sudden increases in volume.
 
 
@
 




Hmmm , this good, but,  won't the Mic pick up the room noise , as well as the artist vocals??

Sonar Version: X3 64 bit
Audio Interface: M-Audio ProFire 2626L 
Computer: Windows7  Pro x64


#13
blu lacez
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 26
  • Joined: 2014/08/24 18:20:02
  • Location: DUBLIN, IRELAND .
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/11 13:24:23 (permalink)
Anderton
Here's an article with plenty of EQ tips.


Thanks Aderton!!

Sonar Version: X3 64 bit
Audio Interface: M-Audio ProFire 2626L 
Computer: Windows7  Pro x64


#14
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 14070
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/11 13:34:24 (permalink)
blu lacez
Multiband compr seems to be poping up a lot in this thread, so I will look into including that in my arsenal, as i tend to leave that in the master bus and not in the vocal track.



 
The Sonitus multiband is cool because it has a master limiting option if you go over. Sometimes this can save a performance if the vocalist got carried away in a section

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#15
blu lacez
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 26
  • Joined: 2014/08/24 18:20:02
  • Location: DUBLIN, IRELAND .
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/11 14:02:48 (permalink)
Anderton
blu lacez
Multiband compr seems to be poping up a lot in this thread, so I will look into including that in my arsenal, as i tend to leave that in the master bus and not in the vocal track.



 
The Sonitus multiband is cool because it has a master limiting option if you go over. Sometimes this can save a performance if the vocalist got carried away in a section


Lol, that's great, we all know artist tend to go crazy in some parts. Thanks again.

Sonar Version: X3 64 bit
Audio Interface: M-Audio ProFire 2626L 
Computer: Windows7  Pro x64


#16
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3873
  • Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/11 14:12:22 (permalink)
I don't really see the point of that once you're in the digital domain. Either your recording clipped or it didn't. Adding a limiter doesn't do anything except change the sound, unless use purposely increased the track above 0dBfs digital (or EQd it to the same effect). At that point, automation could do as much as limiting.
#17
AT
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10654
  • Joined: 2004/01/09 10:42:46
  • Location: TeXaS
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/11 14:23:23 (permalink)
Blu,
 
yes, the mic will pick up more "room" the larger the distance from the artist.  That is why it is best to have a room w/ no major problems - slap back echoes (unless you match your tempo), resonances.  You don't need a pro room (tho, again, that is nice) but a decent one w/o any major flaws.  And even close miking will only attenuate those problems, not eliminate them.  Part of the engineers job is to play w/ the mic to find the right position for it.  There is no perfect one - just the lesser of evils.

https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
 
there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
#18
blu lacez
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 26
  • Joined: 2014/08/24 18:20:02
  • Location: DUBLIN, IRELAND .
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/13 14:36:54 (permalink)
AT
Blu,
 
yes, the mic will pick up more "room" the larger the distance from the artist.  That is why it is best to have a room w/ no major problems - slap back echoes (unless you match your tempo), resonances.  You don't need a pro room (tho, again, that is nice) but a decent one w/o any major flaws.  And even close miking will only attenuate those problems, not eliminate them.  Part of the engineers job is to play w/ the mic to find the right position for it.  There is no perfect one - just the lesser of evils.


A well padded room would save on a lot of things,but can't on me budget. Therefore, I have to be an annoying engineer to some artist, when on constantly changing,checking alternating mic techniques, Lol. I'm trying to avoid any unnecessary dedication on cleaning n utilise that time for, mixing n blending all the components-as someone mentioned -not an exact verbatim, of course.

Sonar Version: X3 64 bit
Audio Interface: M-Audio ProFire 2626L 
Computer: Windows7  Pro x64


#19
blu lacez
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 26
  • Joined: 2014/08/24 18:20:02
  • Location: DUBLIN, IRELAND .
  • Status: offline
Re: EQ TIPS ? 2014/09/13 15:03:55 (permalink)
Here's my current work-just a screenshot. I recorded a rap voca ; i went straight for the quadcore, and was just testing the spectrum, i always have the Sonitus mulitband , reverb and dealy in the fx-which once i have found the settings i like, will now be saved as  FXChain . I will then create a bus and insert the fxChain, then bus the said vocal track to it.
Sounds long winded, i know..lol.
 
 


Sonar Version: X3 64 bit
Audio Interface: M-Audio ProFire 2626L 
Computer: Windows7  Pro x64


#20
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1